Hifi jim Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 You are hearing the result of the interaction between the speaker and the room. So, as you can see, even though we may be using a controlled directivity speaker, this does not alleviate any interdependence between room and speaker. Furthermore, after that very first wave of direct sound hits the room surfaces, its all about the room, that is what you are mostly hearing ~ the room. Thanks for your explanation Artto. You make some interesting points and I agree that no matter the loudspeaker, the end result is an interaction between the speaker and room. However, in my own experience I've always felt that horns were easier to integrate into my rooms than typical cone and dome types which I felt were forcing me to listen to much more of my room than with horn speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Compared to a direct radiator without waveguides, where pattern control < 90 deg is non-existant at any frequency, you are hearing more of the direct sound Agreed and exactly what I was trying to say in layman's terms. Thanks Don. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I dunno Art, a speaker with a narrower polar response results in ahigher ratio between direct and indirect sound. Focusing a flashlightin a dark room can very quickly demonstrate the same effect. Also,a polar response that keeps the sound away from early reflection pointsdramatically reduces the blurring effects that early reflections createwithout needing to add absorption. The lack of a need for absorptionmeans that late arriving energy isn't getting absorbed, which in turnimproves the density of the semi-reverberant field. In small rooms, wewant as much sound as possible after the Haas window...provided thatwe're not creating any specular reflections, and that we maintain asmoothly decaying amplitude. All that to say, I have no problem statingthat tighter polar control usually (not always) reduces the negativeimpacts that a room can impart onto the sound. Stating it such that aspeaker reduces the room's influence is just as validin my mind...assuming of course that what is meant is the desire toachieve a well behaved semi-reverberant field. Sometimes a wider polarresponse is actually advantageous in this regard, but then a widerpolar response puts more emphasis on the room speaker interaction.However, it's much more difficult to create tighter polars than it iswider ones. There are also those that prefer to reduce the room'sinfluence on thesound so that the acoustic space on the recording dominates theacoustic space of the room...anechoic being the extreme of such a goal.Increasing the ratio ofdirect to indirect sound accomplishes the same thing. As far as live vs recorded, I would have to agree that recordedmusic should be seen as a medium all to its own, and the artist hasfull reign over what finds its way onto the canvas. To make a parallelanalogy to paintings....there are some artists that take great pride intrying to accurately depict reality with their paintings. I personallyprefer the more abstract art where images are created that couldotherwise never be experienced in nature. I'm the same way with musictoo. I have found that a system that depicts reality well tends to makethe abstract music less involving - and I really don't think theargument that its an issue of "accuracy" revealing flaws tells thewhole story...ifan artist needs an otherwise dead sounding room to capture the art,then it's not fair to criticize the source material because it soundsbad on a system that is extremely reverberant sounding. That said, I absolutely love live music too....but I'm gonna go hearit live where there is more to the experience than the sound itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 My brother and I went to see the ASO back in 2005 for the premier of a couple of pieces which ended up in this recording. http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/Music-Of-Del-Tredici-Theofanidis-And-Bernstein/ The music is wonderful but the recording seemed rather flat dynamically compared to what we both remembered that night. -Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 So, Are you telling me that if I remove all the acoustical treatment the played back sound won't change very much because according to you the controlled directivity horns are greatly reducing early reflections? No, what I am saying is that you will hear more direct sound with more directional speakers vs non directional devices, and negate some acoustical problems with their use. Page 5-13 of the JBL Pro Sound System Design Reference Manual shows two diagrams that prove that fact. http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=275&doctype=3 You need a reality check Sir. And maybe some hearing aids too. I little real world experience, over say 20 or 30 years worth, at least, might help too. FYI, I had 30 years experience 10 years ago. Hearing aids? I just turn it up a notch [<)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 there are some artists that take great pride in trying to accurately depict reality with their paintings. I personally prefer the more abstract art where images are created that could otherwise never be experienced in nature. Well stated, and I totally agree (within it's context). Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 When I hear audiophiles talking about a system that sounds like a live event my normal first question is - from where in the auditorium? You can follow that up with "and which auditorium?" If you like. I have absolutely no idea what any of the recordings I own sounded like in real life - many are from the 1960's and far flung countries from me. I simply wasn't there on the night. What I can do, however, is to strive to ensure that replaying a violin (for example) on my system IN MY ROOM sounds as close as I can get it to what I regard as reality. It would appear that my assessment of what reality is must be quite close to being correct as it has been confirmed by numerous other listeners (and not just balmy audiophiles). Further, it should be stressed that this effect - so close to (apparent) reality you can taste it is hugely dependent upon the recording. Poor recordings sound like - well - poor recordings. Good ones, actually no - great ones - can give the illusion of being there. When its just you and the music till a dub dub dub sound reminds you that there is a record that needs turning over - you made it, congrats. Now you can stop spending on the system and start spending on more of those magical recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germerikan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Mabie the subject shoud be Live vs Recorded vs greatly recorded?? GIGO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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