Live vs Recorded

[Hifi jim]

You are hearing the result of the interaction between the speaker and the room.

So, as you can see, even though we may be using a controlled

directivity speaker, this does not alleviate any interdependence between room

and speaker. Furthermore, after that very first wave of direct sound hits the

room surfaces, its all about the room, that is what you are mostly hearing ~

the room.

Thanks for your explanation Artto. You make some interesting points and I agree that no matter the loudspeaker, the end result is an interaction between the speaker and room. However, in my own experience I've always felt that horns were easier to integrate into my rooms than typical cone and dome types which I felt were forcing me to listen to much more of my room than with horn speakers.

[Hifi jim]

Compared to a direct radiator without waveguides, where pattern control < 90 deg is non-existant at any frequency, you are hearing more of the direct sound

Agreed and exactly what I was trying to say in layman's terms. Thanks Don.

[DrWho]

I dunno Art, a speaker with a narrower polar response results in a
higher ratio between direct and indirect sound. Focusing a flashlight
in a dark room can very quickly demonstrate the same effect.

Also,
a polar response that keeps the sound away from early reflection points
dramatically reduces the blurring effects that early reflections create
without needing to add absorption. The lack of a need for absorption
means that late arriving energy isn't getting absorbed, which in turn
improves the density of the semi-reverberant field. In small rooms, we
want as much sound as possible after the Haas window...provided that
we're not creating any specular reflections, and that we maintain a
smoothly decaying amplitude. All that to say, I have no problem stating
that tighter polar control usually (not always) reduces the negative
impacts that a room can impart onto the sound. Stating it such that a
speaker reduces the room's influence is just as valid
in my mind...assuming of course that what is meant is the desire to
achieve a well behaved semi-reverberant field. Sometimes a wider polar
response is actually advantageous in this regard, but then a wider
polar response puts more emphasis on the room speaker interaction.
However, it's much more difficult to create tighter polars than it is
wider ones. There are also those that prefer to reduce the room's
influence on the
sound so that the acoustic space on the recording dominates the
acoustic space of the room...anechoic being the extreme of such a goal.
Increasing the ratio ofdirect to indirect sound accomplishes the same thing.

As far as live vs recorded, I would have to agree that recorded
music should be seen as a medium all to its own, and the artist has
full reign over what finds its way onto the canvas. To make a parallel
analogy to paintings....there are some artists that take great pride in
trying to accurately depict reality with their paintings. I personally
prefer the more abstract art where images are created that could
otherwise never be experienced in nature. I'm the same way with music
too. I have found that a system that depicts reality well tends to make
the abstract music less involving - and I really don't think the
argument that its an issue of "accuracy" revealing flaws tells the
whole story...if
an artist needs an otherwise dead sounding room to capture the art,
then it's not fair to criticize the source material because it sounds
bad on a system that is extremely reverberant sounding.

That said, I absolutely love live music too....but I'm gonna go hear
it live where there is more to the experience than the sound itself.

[Invidiosulus]

My brother and I went to see the ASO back in 2005 for the premier of a couple of pieces which ended up in this recording.

http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/Music-Of-Del-Tredici-Theofanidis-And-Bernstein/

The music is wonderful but the recording seemed rather flat dynamically compared to what we both remembered that night.

-Josh

[Don Richard]

So, Are you telling me that if I remove all the acoustical treatment the played back sound won't change very much because according to you the controlled directivity horns are greatly reducing early reflections?

No, what I am saying is that you will hear more direct sound with more directional speakers vs non directional devices, and negate some acoustical problems with their use.

Page 5-13 of the JBL Pro Sound System Design Reference Manual shows two diagrams that prove that fact.

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=275&doctype=3

You need a reality check Sir. And maybe some hearing aids too. I little real world experience, over say 20 or 30 years worth, at least, might help too.

FYI, I had 30 years experience 10 years ago. Hearing aids? I just turn it up a notch [<)]

[russ69]

there are some artists that take great pride in trying to accurately depict reality with their paintings. I personally prefer the more abstract art where images are created that could otherwise never be experienced in nature.

Well stated, and I totally agree (within it's context).

Thanx, Russ

[maxg]

When I hear audiophiles talking about a system that sounds like a live event my normal first question is - from where in the auditorium? You can follow that up with "and which auditorium?" If you like.

I have absolutely no idea what any of the recordings I own sounded like in real life - many are from the 1960's and far flung countries from me. I simply wasn't there on the night.

What I can do, however, is to strive to ensure that replaying a violin (for example) on my system IN MY ROOM sounds as close as I can get it to what I regard as reality.

It would appear that my assessment of what reality is must be quite close to being correct as it has been confirmed by numerous other listeners (and not just balmy audiophiles).

Further, it should be stressed that this effect - so close to (apparent) reality you can taste it is hugely dependent upon the recording. Poor recordings sound like - well - poor recordings. Good ones, actually no - great ones - can give the illusion of being there. When its just you and the music till a dub dub dub sound reminds you that there is a record that needs turning over - you made it, congrats. Now you can stop spending on the system and start spending on more of those magical recordings.

[germerikan]

Mabie the subject shoud be Live vs Recorded vs greatly recorded??

GIGO