maxg Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 About 2 weeks ago I purchased a new turntable complete with all the bits (arm, head, phono stage etc. etc.) It seems to me that the sound is getting better and better. Partly this is no doubt due to my sorting out and earthing problem which has stopped the static build-up I was getting at the beginning. The question is, therefore, does a turn-table "run-in" or am I simply getting used to the sound? Experiences, opinions anyone? ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (DECWARE ZTPRE with separate beefed up PSU) Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones (on loan to a friend) Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 OF course! In fact, cartridges REALLY get better on break in and sometimes do not sound relaxed at all the first few weeks. Just like most audio components, the sound improves with breakin. There are those that argue that it is YOU who is doing the changing and there is a touch of this. But your cartridge and turntable are also settling in. Also, when you first put it together, it needs to settle. I find that when I take my Linn apart, it takes a bit for it to sound right again after putting it back together. Of course, these are just the kind of comments to bring about wild disagreement which goes with the territory. So the answer in my book is a "yes" on all fronts. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 09:56 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinatra Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Don't speaker have to be broken in. I hear that you need to give them at least 100 hours of play before you get the greatest sound possible out of them. -Sinatra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 Sinatra, Speaker break in is one of those topics that gets everyone all hot under the collar here. Some say they do, some say they dont - no consensus as of yet. Same applies to many items (CD players, amps, pre-amps). I happen to believe that there is some change in the sound for various of the above items over time but I woulod never be able to come up with an explanation for it. I asked specifically for the turntable primarily because a) I have just got it and after some 70 hours of play it seems to be sounding nicer and nicer (although that may be me adjusting to it, and I know nothing about turntables and they may just be one of those items where run in is generally accepted. As Mobile says they do, and no-one has said they dont, that will do for me for now. All I know is is that this thing was sounding better and better till yesterday (when we removed the carpets for summer). Now I will have to wait till September to get my proper sound back - such is life!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 quote: Originally posted by maxg: All I know is is that this thing was sounding better and better till yesterday (when we removed the carpets for summer). Now I will have to wait till September to get my proper sound back - such is life!! I hear ya Max! My girlfriend loves to rearrange the furniture (as well as removing/replacing the area rug) twice a year. Thought I had a handle on it after I took measurements of speaker, couch, TV, audio rack, recliner etc... and just put things back where they were six months earlier, right? Not this lady, she goes out and buy all new furniture!! Aaaarrrrggg!!! I bought a Shure V15VxMR about a month ago and it was very bass heavy for the first 30-40 hours or so. Now it's setteling down to a nice neutral tone. I did notice, however that it has a little more surface noise than when it was new. Maybe the bass was drowning it out. ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiming Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Hi Tom, Glad to know that your V15VxMR has improved. Regarding the surface noise, do you periodically clean the needle with the stylus brush provided by Shure? I use the Audio Technica stylus cleaning fluid once in a while too. My V15VxMR is already a year and a half old and still as silent as it was when new. quote: Originally posted by tblasing: I bought a Shure V15VxMR about a month ago and it was very bass heavy for the first 30-40 hours or so. Now it's setteling down to a nice neutral tone. I did notice, however that it has a little more surface noise than when it was new. Maybe the bass was drowning it out. ------------------ My system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Weiming- Thanks! It seems whenever I make an observation like that the more I think about it the more I think it could be something else. In this case I think it's just a bad pressing of the record itself. Some vinyl in the ol' collection IS pretty silent. The brush I'm using is an 18 year old Discwasher SC2. It gets a good dousing about every other record or so. The brush is still in really good shape and I'm still only on my third bottle of cleaner from 1984! Back when I had a P-Mount Technics SL-P350 with an Ortofon P15 Cartridge(cheap thing) it hardley ever saw a the SC2. The only thing that wore prematurley was some of the vinyl and most of that was quickly replaced the next payday. I see in your system that you have a Technics SP-25. Do you happen to remember a Technics turtable that was just monsterous in size and sat in a polished lava rock base? This was about 1982. We had one of those where I used to work but it wasn't there long enough for me to appreciate. From then on we had the SL-1200 and the Yamaha PF-800/PF-1000's. ------------------ Tom's Money Pit This message has been edited by tblasing on 03-27-2002 at 10:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 It seems to be an imponderable. The good part is that after 20 hours, or whatever people favor, it is broken in. Then again some wag can always come forward with a suggestion that 100 hours is the mark. Or 200 hours? I was around for the days when vinyl was the mainstay of sound. Everyone used turntables. I don't remember that anyone proposed run in of mechanical parts or the cartridge. So, while we're on the subject, does anyone hazard a guess on when the cartridge starts going downhill? Maybe the stylus wears first? Smile. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiming Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Hi Tom, I agree with you that some of the records we possess are not really that fantastic, even after repeatedly using a record cleaning machine. Most of my records are purchased 2nd/3rd etc. hand and will exhibit surface noise due to the numerous nicks and minor scratches across the record surface from misuse by previous owners. I have heard of some previous owners of vinyl here using cooking oil to wash the records or even using a Scotch-brite pad to scrub it down....ouch. I believe the Technics TT you are referring to is the SP-10mk2. Real heavy monster mainly used in broadcasting stations of yesteryear. There has been a renewed interest in this model in recent years. You can find out more about your Technics 1200 and the SP-10 at http://mark.kouts.home.mindspring.com/technics.htm ------------------ My system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 28, 2002 Author Share Posted March 28, 2002 One of the things I have decided in building up my record collection is only to buy new. It seems that the prices for new vinyl here is so reasonable ($5 per disc)that it is simply not worth going second hand. Of the disks I picked up yesterday I have played around 6 of them. I have already got one stand out performer. Paul Simon Live in the park (a double album) - the music is great, the performance terrific and the quality of the recording is breath-taking. Leaving aside the incredible dynamics that are coming through my speakers I played all 4 sides last night at considerable (and growing) volume. Just one pop (side 3 - 2nd track) on the whole thing. This kind of performance is very important to me, coming from the digital domain. I still find the hiss, pops, clicks and so on totally unacceptable in my listening but, with brand new vinyl, carefully brushed and placed on the turntable, this is not yet an issue. FWIW I now regard this Paul Simon recording as the best in my collection. The Roger Waters Live and in the flesh SACD has been relegated to second place, finally, and that cost me 5 times what the Paul Simon cost! At my current rate of progress I should have 200 records within a month or so, comfortably overtaking my 70 SACD's. I wonder how many of my SACD's will then be in my "top ten recordings". I am already at the point where none of my XRCD's are in there (although the Sonny Rollins Jazz Collosus XRCD would make my top 20). Sadly the Queen - Live at Wembly performance I picked up yesterday is not so good. The quality is fine but the balance is all wrong so that the bass drowns out the vocals - I have to strain to hear Freddie at times. This means I still do not have a good Queen recording despite owning one DVD, 5 CD's and one double album - bugger!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Weiming, Hey, thanks for the link!! Most of my old stuff is in there! The TT I was thinking about is also there, the SL1000 mk2. What a beast!! ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 maxg, I wouldnt write off the use record purchase at all as you would be missing out on so much. You just have to be selective. You can find great stuff used still, some in almost perfect shape. I dont know if you noticed my post, but I mentioned my good friend and old band mate from Seattle who drove across the country last year on a record buying binge (just part of the reason for the trip). He hit a lot of little record holes and found GREAT vinyl. Hell, we brought about 300 of the records up to my place for a listen on the Cornwalls and Linn LP-12. His mix was 50s-60s jazz, indie, and underground Electronica. We pulled several all-nighters. Dont know how it is over there, but he reported GREAT vinyl all over, and much of it was sitting in my living room. Used is where you can find out of print material that is so hard to get. You just have to keep your eyes open. I do think the Heresy's might exacerbate the perceived surface noice given their tonal balance. Seriously, though...USED is one of the great reasons to GO vinyl. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barista Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 quote: I happen to believe that there is some change in the sound for various of the above items over time but I woulod never be able to come up with an explanation for it. It seems to me, and this is just logical interjection, that anything with "Analog" movement will loosen up over time. Your turntable is an excellent example. When your cartridge was first assembled, tolerances are high and therefore physical movement is also restricted. In time, friction takes its toll, and tolerances loosen and things move more freely, therefore I would imagine mundane details should be more easily transferred into electrical energy, and furthermore music. The same can be said for drivers (Not enclosures). A new cone will have a stiffer suspension than a well broken in one. IMHO, it goes without saying that speakers have a break in period. Ive personally experienced it on more than one occasion. I think the line becomes fuzzy when you move into the digital realm, start referring to electronic circuits, or wire. Yes, electrons do have friction, this can be proved by running high current though inadequate gauge wire and observing the transfer of friction to heat in the wire itself. However, Ive yet to see any scientific reason an electronic circuit could loosen its flow of electrons, given that 90% of the purpose most components serve is to limit or control the flow of current (Electrons). Especially when High End components focus on high tolerances, which the primary focus is the opposition of any run out over time anyway. The focus of circuits should be linearity, getting accuracy in and getting the same accuracy out. Loose tolerances would only complicate that situation, unless the circuit itself took that change into account. I really start scratching my head when someone breaks in a CD player or digital cable. Im not exactly sure how you can achieve a more accurate 0 or 1. A CD player will produce the same 0 or 1 from day one as it will from day 1000. I even had one guy at a local HiFi shop try to convince me that he could distinguish the difference between running a Toslink in one direction over another (Reversing the direction of the cable). Im incapable of believing that light carrying a 0 or 1 could be sonically colored by the direction it flowed through fiber. Hmmmm Some of it is smoke, some of it is science, and yes some of it is subjective to the listener personally. ------------------ Barista T. Bill My Rig This message has been edited by Barista on 03-28-2002 at 01:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Hey Weiming!! Look what I found on eBay! Still a bute. Since it's direct drive I wonder how it sounds against the belt drive Yamaha that resides on the rack now? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1341658130 ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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