is 2 speaker mode better for music?

[seventeenmonkeys]

i recently upgraded my main speakers and noticed how i now enjoyed listening to music more with the center and surrounds off. i thought this was due to the fact that my centre was of less quality than my mains. i went to the store i bought my mains from and the salesman told me that in his opinion music will always sound better with only two speakers because cds are intended to be listened to from only two speakers (i don't mean multi channel cds/dvds of course). Does this make any sense to you guys?

although he also pointed out that if i put my amp to 5 channel stereo mode it should sound just as good.

[Audible Nectar]

This totally makes sense to me. I find surround sound fields to be more of a distraction than a benefit, where two channel music is concerned.

I have not yet had a "5 channel stereo" function on a preamp/receiver that I was satisfied with - although I must say that I don't really shop for a processor with this in mind. I tend to believe that the best 2 channel music reproduction is played back through 2 channels.

I am curious about the newer SACD/DVD-A formats, but I don't feel like leaping into these new formats until one emerges as a clear winner in format. I typically wait for such new formats to take hold - the best of formats are no good to me if they do not have staying power. Both are relatively "infant" - I'll be curious to see where these go in the future.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002

[HornEd]

dndphishin, sorry, but Paul W. Klipsch doesn't agree with you. In his home, he prefers to have his Klipschorns very wide apart for a concert hall effect and puts a Klipsch Belle in the center to avoid a hole in the soundstage.

Admittedly, not everyone has 20+ feet to use the corners (actually PWK uses "false walls" for his Khorns) plus the room for a Belle in the center... but what we can learn from this is that a center that has the same drivers, crossovers, and cubic inches provides maximal music pleasure in a system.

Two channel music with an equivalent real center channel beats the "phantom" center by effectively widening the sweet spot. -HornEd

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Photo update soon! -HornEd

[Audible Nectar]

Ed, how is this Belle center wired? I am assuming that PWK does this with 2 channel music somehow - but I must acknowledge that I don't understand the concept of the Belle/Klipschorn wiring scheme as it applies to 2 channel. I understand that the center is to fill the hole in the center of the image of the widely spaced Klipschorns, but PWK isn't doing this with any surround sound processing or SACD/DVD-A - or is he?

My point here is that my comments regarding my dislike of multi-channel effects on 2 channel audio is the fault of the processing in the preamp or AVR - which tries to create a center channel from the 2 channel source. I am assuming that this is what the original poster was doing - using the preamp or AVR to create a sound field from a 2 channel source. I have found that opinion varies here - some like these effects, some don't.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002

[HornEd]

dndphishin The best person to comment on PWK's system is probably Tony Reed... or Klipsch minions like BobG or Trey Cannon. My understanding is that PWK's home rig just mixes the sound of the left and right channels and puts it in the middle. Al K. uses a similar solution. Here is a quote from one of his past posts"

"Hi guys,

"If anybody is interested, here's the rig I am using to mix 2 channels to a

third.

"The circuit is simply a 33K resistor from each input to the center output. I

also have a 12K resistor from the center output to ground. This just swamps

out any capacity associated with cable to the center amp by lowering the

impedance. The left and right outputs are connected directly to the left and

right inputs. They just pass right through the box. Of course, three separate

amplifiers are needed. Each amp will require a level (volume) control to

balance up the system too.

"Al K"

I recall hearing a three-channel Klipsch system at the World's Fair in Brussels a long time ago... when even stereo hadn't been around for too many years. PWK wrote a few articles on the subject but I can't seem to lay my hands on them. Many modern preamps create a center channel by feeding it only the sounds that are common to both left and right channels... that results in a more real soundstage IMHO. When I move into my new house later this year, I will be experimenting with that sort of thing with the Khorns and Belle. I expect to also be able to do multi-channel with the rig... and I am open to suggestions. -HornED

PS: How about 'fessin' up to what this lurkin' beast is all about?

[Audible Nectar]

Thank you very much for that post, Ed - I've started several searches on this topic and could not find this. I've been thinking that a Klipschorn music only system may be in the cards someday - if I stumble across a great deal on an unwanted set of Khorns.

I'm not too skilled electrically - but I wonder if some kind of "A/B" switch can be made out of such a unit pictured above. It would be handy to throw a switch for mix mono center vs. 5.1 discrete, for example.

I have a mental picture of a unit that runs three discrete leads out of the preamp into a switch - one set of outputs has the 3 mix mono out leads, the other has the front three channels discrete. As I say, my electrical knowledge is relatively infant - so I'm not sure whether or not this is possible.

The "Beast" -

My signature is a play on those old amusement park ads hyping up their latest creation (a roller coaster junkie, I am). I anticipate that it will be finished before the end of May (and hopefully much before). The project has been a joint effort between the Herkert consortium and Klipsch BBS - updates will be posted soon!

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002

[boa12]

couldn't you just get or the processor to do stereo for

3 channels. i can do stereo then select 3 on mine. i think the dsp then mixes the 2 into 1, as well as creating the sub output; or, maybe just runs the mono info from both channels thru the center (like prologic), or both. not sure there. but do know it's stereo w/ some processing - but not w/ any delay or reverb or such.

is it because your dsp won't do 3 speaker stereo, or because you want a pure signal free of processing, or both? or iow, is al's cirquit analog or digital?

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My Home Systems Page

[jhawk92]

17-

I have a Denon AVR4800 which has the 5-ch/7-ch stereo function and I LOVE it. It is not at all distracting when I am sitting in the sweet spot and having 7 speakers playing the same source; almost like being at a concert. I would agree, DSP modes with "stereo" music is very distracting; the receiver is changing what you are listening to. But with the Denon, it does not do any processing, so you get the true sound. Every now and then I try out 2-ch or even "Direct" mode, but I feel that without the other 5 speakers, I am missing out on the full experience.

And yes, Mr Paul does have a Belle centered between two K-horns and it sounds wonderful. I truthfully didn't pay that much attention to the electronics driving the speakers, as I was engrossed by the sound, but I do know he has a Mcintosh. I don't think there is anything wrong with multi-channel music.

[boa12]

as jhawk says multi-speaker stereo is indeed quite fine

over here. actually music recording studios usually use at least 4 speakers, 1 in each corner. guess the extra center(s) we have are an added bonus.

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My Home Systems Page

[hwatkins]

I believe I have said here before that I am changing to a multichannel stero fan after 25+ years of two channel purity.

I use Denon 3802 w/7 channel stereo. There are Heresy in all four corners (so to speak - rears are more like sides). I have found that after using an SPL meter to get the levels good, that I get the best results by adjusting the center and two rear speakers to -12db. This in effect nearly silences their impact. I am impressed with the imaging and depth that takes place without changing (to my ear)the quality compared to two channel.

My opinion.

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Hwatkins