rockhound Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 First off thanks in advance for any advice given. I'm in a bit of a unhappy state at the moment with my setup. I recently got greedy and decided to sell my Nakamichi TA-2A receiver that ran my cornes and heresy very well, in hopes to finding a all in one receiver that I could play all my sources through (Blu-Ray, XBOBX 360, CD Player). Well needless to say the receiver I bought (Marantz SR-7001 doesn't even come close to the sound the old Nak made or at least to my ears. So that receiver will be moved to the living room or spare room. Now I'm left with needing another receiver or amp/pre combo. I've read numerous postings on how great Klipsch sounds with tubes and I first thought that I should give this a try. However I've learned that some of the earlier SS amps (MC-2100 or MC-250 example) come real close to sounding as good as old tube amps. I've never owned any tube equipment and worry about that cost of ownership and maintenance versus SS amps. Then I also have the option of buying another old school receiver like a Sansui 9090db or similar to use. My question is can someone explain to me what I would really be gaining from a amp/pre combo versus an old school Sansui or Marantz receiver? My listening room is not the best at a 14x14 square with 12' vaulted ceilings. I listen to my music at low to moderate levels mostly but do love to turn em up when I get the chance. My sources will be a Cambridge Azure 640c and my ipod/computer. Another forum member has welcomed me to come demo some of his old Fisher tube gear and MC-2100 so that I can hear the difference myself but wanted to get some opinions and learnings in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myhamish Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Welcome to the forum, Rockhound. Give one of the little Dayton T100 amps from Parts Express a try. There's some threads here about them - In the search box, type in: tripath Slainte. Hamish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutboy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 RH, Can highly recommend a tube pre with ss amp setup for the Corns. Delightful sounding setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Funny another forum member mentioned the same Dayton Amp. Troutboy- Do you have a particular manu/model of pre tube and SS that sound good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You might do well to go find another Nak like the one you had. If you liked it that much (and having listened to a lot of Klipsch/Nak Stasis amp combos back in the day), I can tell you that if you like that combo, you'll have a hard time beating it for the cost. In fact, if you're looking for an upgrade, the PA5 or PA7 are really nice solid state amps for Heritage if you can find a good example - the Nelson Pass-borrowed Stasis layouts are amongst my best recommendations for solid state on Klipsch. Of course if you did the PA-5 or 7 you would want to find the corresponding preamp, too. I have a great deal of experience with vintage Mac solid state amps, as well as tube. The MC250 and MC2100 are very good places to be as well, and mate well with Heritage. The full and warm sound is very easy to get used to....but it's a bit more "chocolatey" in the mids and highs than the Nak's gonna be - some would say a bit "tubey", but authoritative and firm. It's just a different presentation from what you are used to, yet a very viable alternative. If you do this, of course, you'll need a preamp (MX110 is a great choice here). The Fisher tube unit is another very good choice (see also Scott 299). I HIGHLY recommend you taking advantage of that opportunity to demo the Fisher and Mac amps. Hearing them will tell you a LOT. Then get back to us and tell us what you like and don't like and we can give more pinpoint advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzo Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 If you want decent sound with solid state and save monies you can always give Emotiva a go, they have 30 day return policy (which probably not many people want to use anyways). 'Warm sound of tubes' is largely effect of amp clipping, and sometimes lower frequencies suffer quite a bit. Now that is not necessarily a bad thing, many people prefer this kind of sound(i myself still have Quad II 14W monoblocks and Croft Micro 25 preamp and enjoy them). Try and test both and decide which ones tickle your happy bits more. Who knows, maybe you'll decide to have best of both and biamp your speakers with sweet tubes for mid/high and solid state for bass \o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 'Warm sound of tubes' is largely effect of amp clipping...... Sorry, but gotta disagree with you here. Yes, it is true that a tube amplifier will clip softer than a SS amp, but I NEVER run ANY of my tube gears into clipping. EVER. So the beneficial warmth and clarity of a quality tube rig has NOTHING to do with clipping. Good tube gear sounds warmer because tubes deemphasize odd order harmonic distortion, leaving the "even order" which the human ear percieves as more pleasing. Odd order "grates the ears". Any quality tube rig will present full frequency response - as good as solid state. Tubes are not frequency response limiting - at least 20-20KHZ in good gears. A key to good bass response in tube gear is a large power supply. Now I will agree to a point that SS has advantages in bass response in many situations - but if you have ever heard a GOOD tube rig (like VRD amps) on Heritage you would be floored by the quality of the bass. Also, matching up the right speaker and amp is a help. And yes, biamping is an option if the OP wants to take it that far. When I came to this forum I posted that "tube gear isn't meant for rock - that's for the jazz and other types" to which I got schooled. I ate my crow, and have a number of tube gears acquired since. So I ultimately stand my my original recommendation to the original poster, which is to accept the offer to demo those gears and tell us what he thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzo Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Aha the even harmonics and its effect on 'average human ear' argument; i largely enjoy both SS and tube amp/preamp combos and i find sound of both pleasing while they are obviously different Have to agree with you about with more expensive tube gear with large power supplies actually delivering good bass However, i am not even convinced that odd harmonics are exlusive to transistors and even - to tubes; Anyways, what matters in this case is that we agree on similar advice - go and listen to diferent gear and decide which one you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is sound advice I appreciate you sharing your experiences, I will defiantly demo the MC-2100 and fisher tube gear. Again thanks. You might do well to go find another Nak like the one you had. If you liked it that much (and having listened to a lot of Klipsch/Nak Stasis amp combos back in the day), I can tell you that if you like that combo, you'll have a hard time beating it for the cost. In fact, if you're looking for an upgrade, the PA5 or PA7 are really nice solid state amps for Heritage if you can find a good example - the Nelson Pass-borrowed Stasis layouts are amongst my best recommendations for solid state on Klipsch. Of course if you did the PA-5 or 7 you would want to find the corresponding preamp, too. I have a great deal of experience with vintage Mac solid state amps, as well as tube. The MC250 and MC2100 are very good places to be as well, and mate well with Heritage. The full and warm sound is very easy to get used to....but it's a bit more "chocolatey" in the mids and highs than the Nak's gonna be - some would say a bit "tubey", but authoritative and firm. It's just a different presentation from what you are used to, yet a very viable alternative. If you do this, of course, you'll need a preamp (MX110 is a great choice here). The Fisher tube unit is another very good choice (see also Scott 299). I HIGHLY recommend you taking advantage of that opportunity to demo the Fisher and Mac amps. Hearing them will tell you a LOT. Then get back to us and tell us what you like and don't like and we can give more pinpoint advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 **Update** Ok I demoed a fellow forum members JM Peach and I could not pass on it so it now resides at home awaiting a proper amp. This forum member also has a MC 2100 that I plan to demo soon (out for service while I was demoing the peach) and I have a strong feeling this or the 2105 will be my "near term" amp. I was also able to demo another forum members NOS VRD's and all I can say is WOW they blew me away my fear of tubes are gone and I absolutely loved how fluid they were. Sid was very helpful in explaining and showing how tube amps work and thus far Craig has been exceptional at responding to questions. So with that said my plan is to demo the 2100 and most likely buy either that or the 2105 and then save some $$$ and buy the VRD's. I believe either of these combos with the Peach will put me in a good place for many years...or at least I hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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