cornfedksboy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Any thoughts if an HSV VTF-15h would be a significant upgrade over an RW-12d? I'm now planning to run my Icon WF-35 7.1 system in my HT room. This is after much debate and thought about a reference series upgrade. My thought behind the HSV is the better bass sound to compliment my Icon Ws, plus I think the rose nut finish would have a fantastic complement to my Cabernet cabinets. Is the upgrade worth $1000.00, or would I do better to add external amps to go with my Onkyo TX-NR708 AVR? Third option would be to add a second RW-12d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 i think your choice comes down to preference. You have a good sub already but you seem partial to the HSV. You can benefit from having an external amp, always. The WF-35's dont have that deeep bass extension so having a ton of honkin power isnt as neccesaary, or suggested as with speakers with some lower bass extension and larger drivers. None the less, you can always benefit from a high quality power amp! More power!!!!!!! To be honest, if you are a bass head and feel that the rw-12d is slacking then the choice for you would be to upgrade your sub. If you want all of your speakers to "benefit" more, then get the power amp. It's hard for me to say what i would do in your position. I cant really tell how disatisfied you are with your sub nor can i judge if you would notice the upgrade to a power amp vs the inetnal amp of your onkyo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 I don't have the system set up yet as the room is not finished. This is more theoretical right now. I'll do some serious critical listening followed by room treatments before I invest any money in separates or subs. What I had seen was very favorable reviews of the HSU subs and I absolutely love the rosenut finish. On the other hand, many RW-12d reviews on this board are very ho-hum. I'm in audio-bliss with my ignorance towards subs, and wondered what I might be missing, especially since specs are very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm in audio-bliss with my ignorance towards subs, and wondered what I might be missing, especially since specs are very similar. When I was looking for a sub I focused on both HSU and SVS because they both seem to have a great reputation and the prices are much better than some of the others out there. I don't think you'll know what you are missing until you get a great sub in your own home. I'm shocked and amazed at the difference between what I have now and what I used to have. Night and day difference. My sub is the only speaker I own that isn't a Klipsch. From what I've read for the money Klipsch are not the best sub out there, I think you'll get more bang for your buck from either HSU or SVS. I faxed in a floor plan of my area to both and they both called me back with recommendations for what they thought the best sub for my application would be. Both had great customer service which in this day and age is hard to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm in audio-bliss with my ignorance towards subs, and wondered what I might be missing, especially since specs are very similar. When I was looking for a sub I focused on both HSU and SVS because they both seem to have a great reputation and the prices are much better than some of the others out there. I don't think you'll know what you are missing until you get a great sub in your own home. I'm shocked and amazed at the difference between what I have now and what I used to have. Night and day difference. My sub is the only speaker I own that isn't a Klipsch. From what I've read for the money Klipsch are not the best sub out there, I think you'll get more bang for your buck from either HSU or SVS. I faxed in a floor plan of my area to both and they both called me back with recommendations for what they thought the best sub for my application would be. Both had great customer service which in this day and age is hard to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I live about 10 minutes away from HSU and a couple years ago after hearing so many good things about them I decided to give HSU a try. I bought one of their subs I forget the model it was one of their mid level models at the time. Anyway I was very disapointed I did not care for the sound, it was not musical at all. Anyway I brought it back a week later for a refund, I then bought a RW-12d and was much happier. I have since upgraded to an RT-10d and I am very happy with it, very high quality both looks and sound, it blends perfectly with my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Very good! That is EXACTLY what I wanted to know. Specs wise they are similar, but the MSRP of the HSU is about $300.00 cheaper than the RW-12ds $1000.00 MSRP. Now that the RW-12d is selling for a modest $350.00 vs $700.00 for the 12 inch HSU, I thought surely the reason that HSU is getting the acclaim vs the Klipsch is due to the lower price point. My take is that the HSU 12 inch is roughly the same sub (or at least very similar) in a nicer cabinet and lists for $700.00. Bargain price when compared to the RW-12d at $1000.00. Now they may have switched places with the Klipsch close-out price drop. If anyone feels I am wrong, I'd love to hear about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 My Hsu TN1220 was a very musical sub; I had it set up with my Fortes for 2 channel at first, then later as part of my HT setup. It was crucial to use the Hsu "bass optimizer" unit that they recommended to balance out the physics of the over-damped tube that was the TN1220 - it added an additional 5 Hz to the bottom octave for me. When I had it set at 40 Hz, with my Fortes taking everything higher, it was the closest to the elusive "live" sound I ever heard from my system (it was all helped by the $3500 McCormack amp/preamp combo I had at the time). I bought the Hsu VTF3 a few years later as a second sub, and it helped to balance out the sound so that the bass was no longer locatable. For music listening, and with a good setup, I found my Hsu subs to perform very well with Klipsch. I no longer have the units, having built my own for my HT, to reach down and pick up the sub-20 Hz material on DVD and Blu-Ray film material. But I would never accuse Hsu subs of not being musical, at least when properly set up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Im pretty sure I read a review on the HSU sub at audioholics, and it didnt perform very well down low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm pretty sure I read a review on the HSU sub at audioholics, and it didn't perform very well down low. Which subs from HSU are you guys talking about? When I was shopping both HSU and SVS had a few different models to chose from, from budget average subs to great ones. I'm just wondering if all the comparisons are apples to apples. I'd call HSU and SVS and tell them what you have now, explain to them or fax your room dimensions and see what they recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUBALES Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 My 2cents FWIW In my front room i have RF-25 and a RW-10d and it sounds great. One would think that the RW-12d would be a great match with your WF-35 HT set up, but if you are a big bass head the HSU VTF-15H would be a huge upgrade, and when I mean huge I mean huge. Its a monster. (sound and size) I have mine paired with my RF-7II and it sounds great. I toyed around with it paired with my RF-25 set up and it was just to much. It did not have the level of consistency as my RW-10, (it stuck out like a sore thumb.) I to agree the rose nut finish is beautiful. I tell every on that the triangle ports on the side are like nostrils on a fire breathing dragon. and as far as the audioholics review. It sounded like they where being pretty judgmental on a 900 dollar sub. Hell I still bought mine. haha.. I have paid close attention to other peoples reviews and 99% of them have been great, most saying that it exceeds expectations. but some people just like to defend their purchasing decision. But you can only blv so much. Audioholics makes its living on advertising so if any company forks up some money they will say its the greatest thing ever. Separates are nice. They tend to bring out a better sound stage and and depth. maybe a slight improvement in bass. Looks like some fun decisions are ahead.. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 but if you are a big bass head the HSU VTF-15H would be a huge upgrade, and when I mean huge I mean huge. Its a monster. Thats more inline with the what I would expect to hear comparing the Klipsch RW-12d to the HSU VTF-15H from the guys I talked to that owned it when I was shopping for a sub. The four I was looking at were SVS PC12-Plus DSP vs SVS PB12-Plus DSP vs HSU VTF-15H vs used SVS PB12-Plus/2. I went with the used one because for the money I felt it was by far the best deal. But I did talk to a guy who had the HSU VTF-15H that acutally had owned the Klipsch RW-12d and he said it was no comparision. The HSU stomped the Klipsh so I was suprised to read above that you thought they might be equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Very good! That is EXACTLY what I wanted to know. Specs wise they are similar, but the MSRP of the HSU is about $300.00 cheaper than the RW-12ds $1000.00 MSRP. Now that the RW-12d is selling for a modest $350.00 vs $700.00 for the 12 inch HSU, I thought surely the reason that HSU is getting the acclaim vs the Klipsch is due to the lower price point. My take is that the HSU 12 inch is roughly the same sub (or at least very similar) in a nicer cabinet and lists for $700.00. Bargain price when compared to the RW-12d at $1000.00. Now they may have switched places with the Klipsch close-out price drop. If anyone feels I am wrong, I'd love to hear about it! OK, I see you're talking about a 12" HSU now not the VTF-15H. What is the model number of the HSU you're looking at? Where can you buy a RW-12d for $350? That sounds like a great price on that sub if thats the one you want to go with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Well, I was considering the VTF-12, but saw that it speced out very similar to my current sub so I looked into the VTF-15. Obviously the 15 will give more, but I was wondering why I had read so many recommendations for HSU subs (as well as epic and svs), but had seen many folks say not to go with the RW-12d as there are better ones out there for the money. I feel like my RW-12d does a good job, but I was curiuos if I would get noticeably better performance by going with a different brand. I'm just ignorant on all things subwoofer. So I guess what I want to know is, am I going to have a significantly better home theater experience by going with a VTF-15 over an RW-12d? An interesting note, I am about to pick up two RF-82s, an RC-10, two RS-3s and another RW-12d plus a yamaja 7.1, all out of box for less than 3 months and in mint condition for $900.00. I will be able to try two subs on my onkyo, and will play with that for a while before I do anything else. I'm also going to get to do some fun A/B/C comparisons with the Rf-82s, RF-25s, and WF-35s in a controlled room for an extended period! Pretty pumped to get the room finished. Newegg.com has run 2 specials in the past 8 weeks on the RW-12d for $350. shipped. That's where I got my first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I feel like my RW-12d does a good job If you think one RW-12d does a good job then I've got to think you'll be even happier with two. I'd try that set up before buying something else. Newegg.com has run 2 specials in the past 8 weeks on the RW-12d for $350. shipped. That's where I got my first one. Oh yeah I remember that, that was a great deal. Which Yamaha receiver did you get with that package deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yep, we'll give her run in about 2 weeks with a 7.2 system. The Yamaha receiver will be a suprise!!! When I calculate up the price for the speakers, I was good to go with or without the Yamaha so I just said Okay. If its a super low end model, I may use it for a bookshelf set-up in the bedroom. If it's mid-level I'll try and recoup some cash. Based on what this guy is selling I'd bet it's an RX-V563 or HTR-6250 or something similar. Took a gamble, so we'll see. I figure worst case scenerio is I sell the center for $100.00, and I get the RW-12d and RF-82s for fair market value of $800.00. The surrounds, and a low-end Yamaha are free-bees. I'll sell my RF-25s and decide if I want to keep or sell the rest. Seems like a bang for the buck win for me either way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUBALES Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yep, we'll give her run in about 2 weeks with a 7.2 system. The Yamaha receiver will be a suprise!!! When I calculate up the price for the speakers, I was good to go with or without the Yamaha so I just said Okay. If its a super low end model, I may use it for a bookshelf set-up in the bedroom. If it's mid-level I'll try and recoup some cash. Based on what this guy is selling I'd bet it's an RX-V563 or HTR-6250 or something similar. Took a gamble, so we'll see. I figure worst case scenerio is I sell the center for $100.00, and I get the RW-12d and RF-82s for fair market value of $800.00. The surrounds, and a low-end Yamaha are free-bees. I'll sell my RF-25s and decide if I want to keep or sell the rest. Seems like a bang for the buck win for me either way! Keep us posted I would love to see how my RF-25 stacks up with the 82s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Greg Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I had an RW-12D and a Sub-12 and recently purchased a used HSU VTF-3 MK2. I hooked it up, disconnected the Sub-12 and moved the RW-12D to the position where the Sub-12 was located. The difference was immediately noticeable. The HSU produces a lot more bass and is much cleaner and tighter. After listening for a while, I had to disconnect the RW-12D also as it was degrading the overall sound quality. The current version of the sub I bought is the VTF-3 MK3. The VTF-15H would be a huge upgrade over the RW-12D, but you don't need to go that big or spend that much. I bought my used HSU for $400. The guys at HSU are very helpful. Let them know the size of your listening area and your budget and they'll help you make a good choice. I thought the Klipsch sub combo I had sounded pretty good, but after listening to the HSU, there is no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I had an RW-12D and a Sub-12 and recently purchased a used HSU VTF-3 MK2. I hooked it up, disconnected the Sub-12 and moved the RW-12D to the position where the Sub-12 was located. The difference was immediately noticeable. The HSU produces a lot more bass and is much cleaner and tighter. After listening for a while, I had to disconnect the RW-12D also as it was degrading the overall sound quality. The current version of the sub I bought is the VTF-3 MK3. The VTF-15H would be a huge upgrade over the RW-12D, but you don't need to go that big or spend that much. I bought my used HSU for $400. The guys at HSU are very helpful. Let them know the size of your listening area and your budget and they'll help you make a good choice. I thought the Klipsch sub combo I had sounded pretty good, but after listening to the HSU, there is no comparison. I faxed in the floor plan of the upstairs of the main level of my house to both HSU and SVS and received great advice from both companies. I've got vaulted ceilings, and the one side of the room my HT is in opens up to a split level foyer and the rear of the room opens up to another room. Probably close to the worst room to have a HT set up in, but its what I've got to work with so... Anyway they figured out I had a lot more sq ft to fill than I realized. They both came up with the same number and both recommended a lot larger sub that I thought I needed. I couldn't be happier with the size of sub I have now and I'm glad I went with one as capable as they recommended or I probably wouldn't have been happy and been shopping again. Or I just wouldn't have known what I was missing. Either way I recommend touching base with both SVS and HSU and see what they have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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