Seeking The Most Cost-Effective La Scala Guts Rehab

[paul32579]

Going though some beat-up 1976 LSs. I've been all over ALK's web site and would, if money was no object, probably get those crossovers and a new tractrix horn as well as replacing the woofers, and replacing the tweeters with Bob's CTs.

OTOH, I run a Sansui G-8000. My plan so far is just have Bob rebuild the AA crossovers and replace the diaphragm in the squawker drivers, and get new woofers and CTs. The "economy route."

Since I don't intend to go the tube route with these speakers, I have to wonder, would going the ALK crossover/tractrix route really be worth the extra investment in my solid-state world?

[Guest " "]

My opinion. The economy route sounds fine.

[Coytee]

I agree with Fritzie.

Now that I know what I know, if I were going to be starting from scratch fixing up a LaScala, I'd probably go active and turn it into a JubeScala. Losing one crossover point alone, will go a long way towards increasing your sound quality.

Ultimately, it all comes down to how much do you want to spend.

[paul32579]

That's very interesting! I searched the forum, but I didn't find anything really definitive. What's the latest word on what components to use for JubeScalas, and where do you suggest getting them?

Also, how's the sound?

[paul32579]

Uh-oh, sorry, didn't realize that this was a HUGE can of worms.

Suppose I were to just upgrade, replacing the 400 horn and 77 tweet. What's a good setup?

Thanks in advance!

[aj01]

I'd consider a crites 4500hz crossover if you're getting the ct-125s. I went that route and have been happy (although I'm starting a new project now). It definitely smoothed out the top end.

[Coytee]

To answer all your questions in one reply

Best compoenents to use depend on how "balls to the wall" you want to go. 'best' would be the huge K402 if you've got the room and understanding wife. Next would be the smaller K510 which in fact, could be installed INSIDE the top of the speaker, taking the place of the K400/77 with some hole cutting.

Only one way that I know of to get them and that is through Klipsch. They are not inexpensive but they are 100% Klipsch engineered so you know you are getting something with their stamp of approval. (not knocking other setups but one has to wonder how many were voiced inside an anechoic chamber)

How's the sound? hard to say other than "outstanding". Where do you live? If your'e lucky, you might be near someone. I've got the ability to put a JubeScala (K402) next to a stock LaScala with some of Al K's extreme slope crossovers (stock drivers/horns). I could do a side by side outdoors and let you make your own mind as to how they sound. There are a couple others out there with them as well.

I'm not so sure that the JubeScala is much of a can of worms... the Jubilee or the K402 might be a can of worms, depending on the day & thread that you read however.... are you more interested in reading about or eating a can of worms or are you more interested in better sound?

I'd put it this way, if you can beefen up the side walls of your speakers (will help clean up the bass a whole lot) you can then have a good/better/best situation. I would put the 2-way JubeScala with beefened sidewalls as the best situation. The other 3-way solutions as the better and stock as the good.

I've owned LaScalas for over 30 years so I'm not trying to be negative on anything about them.

To me, it all comes down to how much improvement do you really want and just as important, what are you willing to spend to get there? JubeScala will probably be the most expensive although I don't know that. If you biamp, you might already have enough amps laying around so it might not be an extra cost for the extra channels.

You can take a step forward for man, or a giant leap forward for mankind.

.......................................................[Z]

Good luck in what ever you decide.

[Johnny's Jill]

Just replacing the K-400 with a Fastrac and re-capping the crossovers would make a huge improvement. Replacing the woofers is a mistake unless you dont have the originals or yours are damaged.

The ALK's are especially good with solid state, you certainly dont need tubes to sound good with ALK's and a wood horn.

I need to put my ears on a Jubscala someday, still have not heard a 2 way that I liked. I am hoping daves new Cornscala 2way with a oval horn will be the one.

Craig.

[paul32579]

@ Coytee: OK, I see where you're coming from. Thanks for taking the time to write all that.

I'm going to try the A/4500 crossover with the CT-125s and stay with the 400 squawker horn. Reasoning: I can't get new diaphrams for the K-77s, and I'd like to try the CT-125s; the 400 horn is EXACTLY what I'm used to with La Scalas for in-your-face listening. I have a pair of Khorns in the corners, and the LSs sit between. Sometimes I play just the LSs (old rock and roll, like really old Beatles, when you want that sock-hop effect), sometimes just the Khorns (playing something like Gentle Giant) or both for general purpose rock.

Bringing down the upper end of the 400 midrange might just be the ticket to keep my ears from bleeding/ringing so often, but leave some of the signature sound that a lot of LS listeners, like me, have become fond of.

Maybe...

.

[paul32579]

@ AJ01: THANK YOU for mentioning that!!

At Crites' site, the ad segment for CT-125 specifies "no crossover changes."

However, I just ASSUMED the right thing to do would be to get my AA crossovers rebuilt. Here, I can potentially cure the head-ringing inherent in the 400 horn setup and plumb, hopefully a better tweeter.

I wonder how much better the CT-125s are over the K-77s. Can you elaborate?

[paul32579]

Craig, I think you're right on. I'm going to make this mod you suggest on the Khorns after I finish these La Scalas.

I took the first woofer out of the LSs. Mice ate the center caps, and the paper has been exposed to a lot of humidity. I have to replace them. I was going to go with the

Woofers, pair CW-1526 from BC.

Smart, or no?

[Johnny's Jill]

My preference would be to re-cone the K-33's, but you may like the Crites and his price is good.

Craig.

[paul32579]

Craig, my friend, I cannot re-cone speakers. These things are pretty nasty. After the mice ate the center caps, there're probably mouse turds mixing with the coils.

Crites' price is cheap. But, tell me: what's the best value? Getting the old woofs rebuilt by someone, or replacing them with....what do you recommend?

[paul32579]

Also, if going with the CT-125s, regardless of tractrix or 400, wouldn't that kind of necessitate the 4500 crossovers? Or is there some reason to keep the AAs?

[paul32579]

@ coytee: Let me ask you this: Is the Idea to go with coaxial speakers these days?

[ZombieWoof]

Bob's woofs spec out better than the Klipsch woofs,plus they go lower

his tweet is way better sounding than the stock tweet

You can sell the woofs that come out on ebay or even here as well the tweets

I did when I did my CornScala's

the parts sold very fast & helped pay for most of the up-grades

it's a no-brainer Really !

old klipsch parts sell well .....

[Johnny's Jill]

Also, if going with the CT-125s, regardless of tractrix or 400, wouldn't that kind of necessitate the 4500 crossovers? Or is there some reason to keep the AAs?

If you are going to stick with the K-400 the A-4500 is somewhat better than the AA. If you were going to replace the the K-400 I would stick with the re-capped AA and spring for the ALK's when the $$ are available. The woofers eaten by rats or mice.....bummer, but unless they ate through the steel basket they can still be re-coned. I use Orange County Speaker to repair mine.

The 4500 crossover necessitates the use of the CT-125 tweeter, not the other way around. You can certainly use Bobs tweeter with your AA's

Craig

[Johnny's Jill]

Bob's woofs spec out better than the Klipsch woofs,plus they go lower

They also have a bit higher SPL, which is perfect for Cornscala and I would reccomend them anyday for that application, however for Lascala's the woofers tend to steal the show, and the mids get buried in the background. I made the mistake of selling my Lascala's K-33s when I installed the CW1526s took me a while to find the originals to put back in.

The Crites tweeter is fine, a bit lower in spl than the o/e.

[aj01]

The "head ringing" is definitely better with the 4500 and ct-125s. I like the sound and if you look at the specs on the La Scala II, they moved the crossover down. That said, soon I'm going to be playing with some fastrac horns, alk gentle slope crossovers and gpa 902's, so I'm not sure what I'll like best.

Eventually you'll wind up with a basement full of half built cabinets, random horns and drivers!

[Coytee]

@ coytee: Let me ask you this: Is the Idea to go with coaxial speakers these days?

I'm certainly no expert to ask...but in my opinion?

Isn't a coaxial driver still a 2-way driver in and of itself? So, if you mate a coaxial mid/high driver with say, a Khorn bottom, you are still listening to a 3-way speaker however, you have (perhaps) mitigated much of the phase/coherence issues that the traditional 3-way setup brings?

The only thing I can say with any honesty is based on that which I've heard myself. I didn't even realize what the reality was until Ben essentially slapped me upside the head and had me go prove it to myself (which I did).

The Khorns in my room, sounded noticably different (better) when standing 30' away from them. Long story short, it took some time, therefore distance for the three drivers to come together as a single bubble of sound.

When I put the 2-way Jubilee's in the same spot with the same electronics, one of the things I soon did was go to this 30' spot to hear how much better they would sound. Imagine my surprise when they did not 'increase' in their quality of sound.

Frankly, I looked at it the wrong way at first. I looked at it from the perspective of the Khorns increased their quality of sound at 30' away and the Jubilee's did not. Instead, what I should have realized is, the Jubilee's soudned better (more coherent) from the start because it did not take 30' for them to 'sound good'. Their sound came together at maybe 7-10 feet well within the same room.

I thought it was because of the signal alignment. Ben suggested it was the 2-way and I should go down and screw around with the signal alignement to prove it to myself. Turns out he was right.

To try to diplomatically answer your question more directly.... I think the idea of a coaxial, fine as it may be....and better as it may be... is still a way to put a bandaid on the problem. It might (probably will?) sound better than a stock LaScala or stock Khorn.

Remember though, with regard to the Khorn, PWK's initial plan for it was to be a 2-way but, driver technology at the time, forced him to make it a 3-way. With the Jubilee, his intent was to finally take his Khorn back to his original design of a 2-way speaker.

Seems to me he could have easily swapped in a coaxial HF if he wanted the easy way out however, he wanted a true 2-way it seems because there are some sonic benefits to losing a crossover point.

All I can say with any certainty... if you could hear a side by side (3-way LaScala vs 2-way JubeScala) I think the 54,281 paragraphs I might want to type to try to describe the differences would be illustrated to you in 5 minutes of comparing. Maybe 3 minutes. []

As somewhat of a disclaimer, it's no secret I'm a fan of what the company has put out. There is a part of me that would prefer to work with 100% Klipsch designed solutions than mixing/matching other parts (that might sound good) and make my system somewhat of a guinea pig. I'm not very creative in that regard. I'd rather take proven parts and simply make the change. (I could not design a car engine but give me the parts and any needed directions and I could put it together as well as anyone...I'm a plug/play type)