Boomzilla Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I see that this question has been asked on the forums before, but normally not in a technical context. Uncle Paul obviously intended for Heresy speakers to sit on the floor for bass reinforcement. In the modern world, however, many of us use subwoofers so that the floor bass boost isn't required. Therefore, in order to optimize imaging, what height should Heresy speakers be? Certain heights would cause cancellation and significantly uneven bass response, other heights would put the squawker & tweeter above ear level. Has anyone measured room response with the cabinets at various heights? What gave the smoothest response with minimum effect on the bass? Enquiring minds want to know... Thanks - Boomzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Klipsch placed the bottom edge of the mouth of the tweeter in a KLF 20 at 35.5 inches off the ground. Thats a pretty good average height of your ear when seated. Give that a try and see what you think. It works for me. Hope this helps, best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Klipsch placed the bottom edge of the mouth of the tweeter in a KLF 20 at 35.5 inches off the ground I agree that placing the tweeter/midrange centerline at or about level with your ears will give you the best imaging. However, note that it will kill bass response as a function of the length of the space under the speaker cabinet to the floor corresponding to 1/4 wavelengths associated with that span. You will probably find that the sub will be required--full time. Having said that: I have always thought that one of the real disadvantages of the Heresy design is that it puts the owner in an unenviable box: should the speaker be on the floor (and close to a corner) to achieve bass proper response, or elevated to ear-level and placed out into the room in order to get imaging? Having a separate sub or subs decouples the design allowing more optimal placement of both units. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I agree that the shortness of the speaker can be a challange. I still maintain the risers put the sound at the right level about 7-10 feet back..... (Excellent imaging and seperation, imho..... I use homemade risers; but it works well). My .02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I have taken some crude measurements with the Heresy . Not sure of the accuracy and I am not so sure they bear on someone else's experience in their own room set up in any event. In general the Heresy II of mine have a general rising response operating out from the walls and up off the floor. This makes my Heresy a poor candidate for stand mounted out from the wall. The sound is lean and bright and shouty. Seems to me they were voiced as if intended to to be on the back wall to offset diffraction loss in the lower midrange and then down on the floor to pick up some boost in the lower bass. Using a combination of equalization and added padding on the mid and tweeter I much preferred them up and out from the back wall. Better imaging, wide soundstage, lot smoother and blended. In my room there was probably too much reflection when right up against the back wall. I never liked them on the floor mostly because I do not like the sense of a looking down at the stage. I liked the system high enough to look down the mid horn. Surprisingly, I could get them quite close to the sidewalls without buggering up the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Everyone is entitled to an opinion........ I much prefer my H Is on the floor tilted up. (with my DIY risers). Mine are an inch off the back wall; toed in 20 degrees; and about 8-8.5 feet apart. (Not sure how you are getting "too much reflection" off the back wall; as the sound waves travel forward out of the horns. Reflections in the room? different story. Carpet and room treatments can help address that)...... I do have my mids cut by -3db; I can look down my mid horns as they are tilted up...... And often, the music sounds so good; I close my eyes and imagine the band I am listening to is playing live...... I have always been about bang for buck.... And I have learned to love the Heresy look on the floor...... It's the "little engine that could" I would bet if you did a blind test with them on the floor.... You would prefer the sound over your current sound...... The fact they came with risers (not all; but many) shows me floor placement with risers was tested and proven to enhance sound quality...... Again.... Different Strokes For Different Folks...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 I much prefer my H Is on the floor tilted up. (with my DIY risers). Thanks, Ironsave - might you be persuaded to share a photo of those "DIY risers?" I've currently got mine on a pair of "amplifier stands" that get the speakers about two inches off the floor, but with no tilt. I listened for about 10 minutes last night until a thunderstorm came through and we lost electricity. The speakers imaged! Before the Heresy set, I was listening to a pair of Theil 1.5 speakers that are supposedly renowned for their imaging. Until I got the Theils about a third of the way into the room, they couldn't image at all! When I set them that far out, my spouse promptly said "no - get them back against the walls." Damned if you do, damned if you don't... In any case, the Heresy speakers, in my room, against the wall, imaged FAR better than the Theils. I might also ask this forum for recommendations on speaker wire (yes, I'm aware that this is a controversial topic that many find totally bogus). The wires that I currently have available include: Monster Cable 12 ga., Kimber Kable 4TC, and Nordost Flatline. I obviously haven't had time to try them, but will report when I can. On the Thiels (being 4 ohms and liking lots of current), the Monster was the best of the bunch. With the 10-ohm Heresy speakers, I probably have more flexibility. Finally, might I ask a few more general questions: My Heresy grilles look dusty. What's the best cleaning method? I just re-oiled the walnut Heresy finish with high-gloss tung oil; what's the best interval for additional oil application? These Heresy speakers will be used with a Definitive Technology SuperCube 1 subwoofer; what's the best crossover frequency assuming the Heresy speakers retain their floor coupling? Thanks - Boomzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Boom, Here is the thread I posted about my "DIY" risers: http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/137260/1392100.aspx#1392100 I vacuum my grilles every few months. (The brush attachment seems to work pretty well)... I apply oil every 4-6 months; and I clean with liquid gold every 2-3 weeks. I have them crossed at 60hz right now; (set to "small"). Since the start rolling off there anyway; it seems to make the most sense on paper; and sounds the best..... As for speaker wire..... I am in the [bs] camp. I use 12 gauge that came with the speakers. (I do believe different wires can sound different; I just feel $100-$200 for wires is very little bang for buck; C'mon; The Heresies cost me $250)...... Monoprice sells quality wire for very cheap. Also; I am not dead set against trying different setups. As I said before; everyone is entitled to their opinion...... I wish you luck on your quest for Aural Bliss..... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 As for speaker wire..... I am in the camp I would tend to agree: Yes - wires sound different, BUT value for the $$ they aren't. The law of diminishing returns applies in spades to wire - a little bit better wire usually costs a LOT more. Before I laid out lots of money for wires, I'd buy a pair of Mr. Crites' Corn-Scalas instead. SO, to summarize - my mind is made up - don't confuse me with facts! LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Oh, no doubt they were engineered to sound best floor placed and against the wall. The problem reflections are more in the mid to upper bass. Room effect no doubt and very difficult to tame. Reorienting them to the longer wall might help but not a good option for other reasons. Getting them out in my room opens up the image, gets a good punchy bass with clear distinct tactile feel. But I lose the low bass in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Unfortunately..... It is usually about compromise. I think the longer wall is more desirable; but if it does not work for you; then you have to make do with what you have...... There are things you can do to help improve bass and overall sound quality...... You can seal your cabinets with foam tape along the back panels. Also; flipping the woofers 180 degrees may help.Replacing capacitors will probably not help much for bass; but it will open up the mids and highs to another level. (Bob Crites sonic cap kit is around $50... Well worth it. I did one speaker and tested them side by side for a few days..... Nice improvement!)...... I recommend getting a good sub. It has made all of the difference in regards to modern music (recorded with more low frequencies). Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 [] As for speaker wire..... I am in the camp I would tend to agree: Yes - wires sound different, BUT value for the $$ they aren't. The law of diminishing returns applies in spades to wire - a little bit better wire usually costs a LOT more. Before I laid out lots of money for wires, I'd buy a pair of Mr. Crites' Corn-Scalas instead. SO, to summarize - my mind is made up - don't confuse me with facts! LOL... When I hit the lottery; (and have the luxury of experimenting with $500 cables).... I will report my findings...... Honestly; right now; I have tried monster cables; etc..... As long as the wires are not the bottleneck.... I think the performance gain is minimal. My $100 (used) Harmon Kardon AVR635 has made more impact than $200 cables will. As mentioned.... diminishing returns........ [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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