brogh Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hello ! I was searching info's on the RF-63 crossover layout, i'm not searching for detailed info about components in it, i just want to know where the 1700 hz cut happens, I Imagine that the horn, and the first upper speaker act as a tweeter/midrange unit and the other two are responsible for bass and midbass frequencies, am I correct ? I was wondering about using biwirng for my babies, really soon my denon 1560 will be back and i was thinking of biwiring... if the layout of the Crossover is as i imagine it makes some sense, but if the crossover has a different approach, like if the HF connector on the back of the speakers, drives only the horn i don't know if it would be a good idea connecting this monster amp, i'm scared about harming in some way the speakers. What i want to do i use the A/B connection of the denon to do this. Do you think it is a good idea ? does anyone have any kind of suggestions about it ? Thank You! Brogh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Brogh, Are you intending on sending one amp signal to the frequencies above 1700 Hz, and the other amp to the frequencies below that, or were you wanting to send amp signals to the subs individually, so you can soften the bass with the push of a button? You mentioned your babies, and I don't know if you are talking about kids in the other room you don't want woke up. The sub is tuned for three woofers, so I have my doubts about the sound quality if you switch any off. If the 1700 Hz is the answer to that, consider this. It take a whole lot more power to drive a woofer than it does a tweeter. You are driving 3 woofers. The crossover in that speaker takes care of this imbalance. If I were gonna try this, I would disconnect the subs from the crossover channel A to the crossover, and channel B directly to the subs. Honestly, though, I would not do it. If you want to experiment on bi-amping, you should start out with a junk speaker. Somebody like Bob Crites could do this in his sleep. If I am wrong about this, anybody please correct me. I have thick skin. I just want Brogh to pause before he starts snipping. Hope the Denon sounds great when you get it back. Good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogh Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi Thank You for the answer ! Sorry for my bad english !, i thought it was in some way clear []. With "my Babies" i'm refeering to my RF-63 Speakers, at the moment i have no little kids so i can bunch up to 108 db peak in my room, there is no subs or anything else involved in my stereo, in fact it's a 2.0 system. The question was about the crossover frequency of those speakers, the manual states that the crossing section is at 1700 hz for the RF63, the thing not clear to me is .. above 1700 hertz, is there only the horn playing, or is also the first top woofer involved in this ? I know that driving three woofers needs a lot more energy than a tweeter, that was the point of the queistion, the denon 1560 is a big power amp. The RF63 allows biwiring, bi-amping, what i was intended to do is, as the amps allows to use two different set of speakers with it's A/B selector, you can use both of them at the same time, what i was thinking about is using the A to drive the high frequencies and B to drive the lower ones, just to gain more "clarity" thing for which the bi-wirin bi-amping is made for. But i'm not sure about this, as you correcly said, driving a tweeter needs less energy, so i'm scared in doing this "bi-wiring" ( as it is not a real bi-wiring) thing, i don't want to blow up anything, or harm any component, with this amp i'm afraid about something bad can happen, so i've asked here where a lot of people knows how to " do it right ". Thank You for the good luck if it sounds like i've heard for a short time before it blew up, when it comes back from repair, i think i will have some problems with my neighbourghs love this amp, it has a really warm sound and so much power that i think it can drive musically any kind of speakers. If anyone has the chanche to give it a try.... give it, but don't forget it's a 90's amp, hard to find, but when you fire it up your ears will be certainly happy. Thank You Again Cheers Brogh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The question was about the crossover frequency of those speakers, the manual states that the crossing section is at 1700 hz for the RF63, the thing not clear to me is .. above 1700 hertz, is there only the horn playing, or is also the first top woofer involved in this ? Brogh, My understanding is that the 63's have one crossover point where all three woofers crossover to the horn tweeter at 1700hz. As you probably know, the crossover point is not a brickwall so there is some overlap where the woofers and the tweeter are playing at the same time. I did own the wonderful Denon POA-1500 amplifier, which may be a similar amp that is in your PMA-1560. It did not like the low impedance dips(2.8ohms) of my RF-63's. After an extended listening session at moderate levels, the amp went into protection mode and did not come out. Off to the repair shop and $80.00 later, it was running like a top. Needless to say I did not use it to drive my 63's anymore and it became my full time amp driving a pair of Fortes with never a problem. Your PMA-1560 may be a completely different animal so my experiences my not apply at all in your situation. I'll let others chime in with the bi-wire/bi-amp thing. Here is a photo of my very missed POA-1500.[](Jeff Tubbs better give me first shot if he ever sells it)[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 RF-63 has two connections which come connected with a link from factory between HF and LF. HF is a abreviation of High Frequency and is connected to a Horn/tweeter (the rectangular Horn speaker that you see at the top). While LF is an abriviation of Low Frequency and all three woofers are connected to that. So basically, upto 1700Hz, the three woofers reproduces the sound and then above 1700Hz, the Horn reproduces the sound...At crossover point there is some overlap depending upon the type of crossover. I guess, so far so good... Bi-Wiring: There are couple of threads here at Klipsch forum and you can read elsewhere too, basically, suggests doesn't make any difference, except a personal gratification of connecting two wires from same amplifier to speakers with link removed between HF and LF - feels good - and one think it sounds good - But in most people's opinion it's kind a waste of money on cables and time. Bi-Amping: When Klipsch says that the perticular speaker is bi-ampable when the link is removed, means it allows two amplifier channels to connect to HF and LF terminal of the speaker. This is typically refered as a 'Passive Bi-Amping'. 'Active Bi-Amping' requires removing the internal passive crossover network and requires to connect the 'Active Crossover' unit in between, which is an expensive affair and requires good knowledge in order to reproduce a good sound. Now, your Denon PMA-1560 is a Class A amplifier rated at 200W @ 8 ohm and 300W @ 4 ohm. With such a powerful amplifier you might not hear the difference when you bi-amp RF-63s. Also, RF-63 are rated 175w RMS (Reference: http://www.klipsch.com/rf-63). And thus, if I were you wouldn't bi-amp RF-63s. btw., I'm running a bi-amped RF-7 IIs with Denon 2808ci, but each amp. channel is rated at 110w @ 8 ohm, which is no way near to yours. I really really doubt that you are going to run your setup at reference level, unless your room size is very big... Your woofer section might not have an issue, but with such a powerful amplifier, you might blow your horn/tweeter at reference level! I would suggest to hold your temptation to bi-amp and connect the PMA-1560 in a normal way and ENJOY!!! Some day, some one cranking it to a full volume or one passage of a dialog or scene, could potentially destroy your Horn! Up to You! Good Luck! Welcome to Klipsch Forum! [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogh Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Hi ! Thank you for the answers Willand and Pite ! [Y] whith the last post, you unlocked my doubts, in fact the thing that scared me was really what you exactly said. Yes The PMA-1560 is a monster in power, and the biwiring thing was an option which i was looking for but i was not sure to do it. I think i will not go forward with this, just to idea to harm my speakears equipment doesn't sound good to me, so i will use them in the normal way, altough i really have not a big room for them. Thanks to both for the suggestions ! Have a nice weekend !! Man these speakers Rock ! Brogh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 You are very welcome brogh...[] Yeah, I have auditioned RF-63 & 83 few times, and each time I left with extremely nice feeling...And oh my God, that behemoth Denon amplifier with 200W RMS is going to drive it with real authority without any doubts. Not to mention, while the speakers are rated at 8 ohms, they dip upto 3-4 ohms at some frequency, and in that case too, the amplifier has enough juice to drive it at remarkably low distortion... The Class A amplifier is going to provide the RF-63 a full signal amplification, so RF-63's 'Horn' is going to be one sweet sounding, melodious tweeter - Sweet deal! Enjoy the heavenness of the RF-63 driven by Denon PMA-1560 @ 200W RMS! [8-|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogh Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hello ! So Finally my 1560 is back [] And how ! ... Wow.. if any of you got the chanche to put your hands on it give it a try [] The Best word do describe the first impression about the sound i had is as you said Authority. Everything is more cristal clear, more definition of the stage, and a really more dense sound, the dynamics are outrageous far way beyond what i did expec. Voices now are really a lot better also horns flutes and winds in general, but the real roar of this amp is on the bass side never flabby and never loose and also with good power reserve for high transitions. On a normal musical journey my playing stays around 90 db in the weekend when i have more time sometimes i pull up to 98 ( damn that's loud []) with the old amp kranking it up to the higher levels introduces real hardness in the sound, with this one nothing changes and the sound is really juicy. Give a try to any of Mahlers symphonies ( like n°3 first movement ) if you wanna hear really big bangs Cheers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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