mdaudioguy Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Good afternoon Klipsch Folks! Thought I'd drop by here to get some advice on a couple of pairs of Klipsch heritage speakers I recently acquired - Heresy II's and Forte II's. I'm figuring to start with the Heresys, since they're probably going to require the most work. Evidently, they were kept in a dank environment, and the front baffles and rear panels seem to have expanded and caused the cabinet corners to separate. Any suggestions to repair these? As far as I can tell, it's simply cosmetic damage, since the gaps don't seem to extend to the inside. I was initially thinking that clamping would work, but I'm unsure if it would be possible to re-compress the front and rear parts. Alternate idea would be to take them apart and build some custom, identically-sized cabinets (top, bottom, and sides only) and re-use the baffles and rear panels. Any strong feelings or suggestions regarding either approach? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It appears that the MDF has absorbed a lot of moisture over time. If you can get the fronts and backs out, the cabinets can probably be clamped and glued back into shape. it looks like the Motor Board (Front) has absorbed enough moisture to split the corners of the cabinets. While this is bad, it is reepairable. If the front and backs have gained thickness in the process, that is unrepairable, without cutting new ones. It just depends on the total moisture damage. MDF sucks moisture like a sponge and once it has "seperated" enlargement of the fibres, it is hard to resurrect. If you can have new fronts and backs cut out of 3/4 Birch plywood, that would be the best route. The pictures do not show what damage has taken place on the pieces. You can always cut the fronts and backs down to "fit" but that does not relieve the thickness damage. Just depends and the amount of time and what you haev available to you for repair. Hope this helped..... W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdaudioguy Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thanks W. C.! That helped a lot, in that it tells me that what I have is probably salvageable. Not entirely sure yet, but I don't think enough moisture was absorbed to significanlty increase the thickness of any of the panels. Well, the front and back pieces don't appear to be damaged in any way - it just seems that that's where the expansion occurred. I've removed all of the components from the cabinets, and it appears that the inside corners are glued and nailed/stapled. Any suggestions as to how to go about separating the cabinet pieces? Aside from "very carefully", that is... Another option - The cabinets themselves seem to be pretty sound, and they still essentially remain sealed. I could fill the gaps at each corner and square the outside corners and apply another veneer to the outside. Anything sound wrong about that approach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If they haven't swollen significantly, get some clamps, add glue to the seperated joint and clamp back in both directions. The way the picture looks, you may even be able to close the gap back to where it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I use aluminum stock for stuff like this. I have 4 sections that are 2 feet each. after gluing the joints, I put one pliece of aluminum stock on each corner. Then I take two crank up tie down strapps and start cranking. works better than clamps becuase it squares off the corners as it compresses the joints back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It might be better to buy some used cabinets, and refinish them back to new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I have two concerns in approaching a repair. Agree with earlier comments on how MDF changes when it gets moisture into the material. The separation seems to be around the front baffle which is rabbeted into the surrounding panels. First is whether the “curl” has become so permanent it puts a lot of stress on the repaired glue joint. Will it hold assuming you can get everything clamped up with enough glue in the effected areas? Second is whether the baffle will remain loose after the repair since I can’t think of a way to get glue deep into the rabbeted section.I think it is worth a shot. My Heresy cabinets were similarly affected at the back bottom corners. Not to the same extent admittedly. Otherwise you have to trash them anyway. I would try to glue and clamp all corners at the same time. That will require having at least 4 clamps to use. I would prefer to have 8 clamps altogether. Find some 1 inch heavy ply cut to the dimensions of the panels front to back and side to side along each seam. This will give better tension all around the loose joints. If that seems to work out well after the glue cures I would add cleats to the inside of the baffle on all side, top and bottom panels. Add some cleats cut to 45 degree angles to each corner where the sides meet the top and bottom. All to better hold the joints and firm up the baffle in case it has loosened up somewhere. You will likely need to replace the veneer as it won’t join up and may be in poor shape anyway. If you end up with not-quite-tight seams get some bondo and use for filler instead of wood putty. Bondo is stronger and makes great edges. So strong that its stronger than the wood so some care is needed when sanding down the filler so as not to take away too much of the wood stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 All suggestions could work, per. se. Having been through this a significant number of times in restoring H-II's, when all is said and done, it is unlikely that you will ever quite get them "squeezed" back together. It's the characteristics of the MDF when they have become exposed to water or excesive humidity. The best method, as mentioned, is to simply find another pair of structurally intact boxes, maybe some nice veneer, swap the drivers and be done with it. You can make new "boxes" for them from 3/4 birch. Not that difficult. The issue is the motorboard which will have to either be very carefully removed and then trimmed to fit properly (H-II m/b's are inset into the box panels), or..... make new motor boards. That however is a technical challenge unless you have a good router and the correct bits. In substance, you would be making a H-I cabinet, using motorboard with driver holes on the outer face, etc. Probably not much help or encouragement, but just some thoughts for you to ponder..... [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdaudioguy Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 First and foremost, thanks to for replying - your knowledge and experience is valued! So, I was initially leaning toward rebuilding, so I tried clamping earlier tonight, without much success. It took considerable force to pull the corners closer, and in the end, I couldn't quite get them to where I wanted. Then, since I'm somewhat impulsive, I scrapped Plan A and decided to separate the cabinets using a small hydraulic jack. Plan B is on! What I learned was that there was not a single piece that was fabricated from MDF! The back panel and motor board are both plywood, while the top, bottom, and sides were all solid wood (edge-glued panels) with a veneer. Since the front and back appear easily reusable (and slightly more difficult to replicate), I've decided to begin fabricating the other panels tomorrow. Haven't decided yet if I'll use some cabinet-grade plywood or MDF, but unfortunately, my choice will be driven by cost. If I go MDF, I already have some interesting veneer to cover them. [] NOTE: My apologies for the MS Word garbage - first time for this type of forum. Will use the Paste from Word button from now on. [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I finally put a new table saw to a good use and was surprised how quickly I was able to turn out a 'Heritage' style box in little time using the saw, a panel cutting jig, air compressor and nail gun. Groomlakearea51 showed me the process a couple years back and you just get your cut order right, rip the boards and glue/staple together. It's pretty easy with good tools and some patience. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 One bit of advice... I don't think I would use Elliot Sanchez of Cedar Hill, Texas for any repairs. He does not seem to be a favorite here on this forum.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdaudioguy Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 I finally put a new table saw to a good use and was surprised how quickly I was able to turn out a 'Heritage' style box in little time using the saw, a panel cutting jig, air compressor and nail gun. Groomlakearea51 showed me the process a couple years back and you just get your cut order right, rip the boards and glue/staple together. It's pretty easy with good tools and some patience. Michael Sounds great - I'd be keen to know what that process is. I mean, it seems simple enough, but I wouldn't mind a useful tip or two... Is there a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 See: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/109693.aspx That link discusses the veneering, techniques, etc.,etc. The replacement of "panels" is relatively straightforward. The key is to have a very accurate table saw, with an accurate "fence", 96 tooth fine cut blade, etc. Are you sure the panels are not veneered MDF? I don't recall ever seeing a H-II that had wood ("lumbercore") panels. Look inside with a flashlight, the inside facings should be MDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdaudioguy Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thanks for the link - much appreciated! My saw isn't the greatest, but I think I can set it properly. We'll see. 99% sure that original panels are not MDF. Will post some pics later to show you what I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdaudioguy Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yep, these were definitely not MDF - must be the "lumbercore" boards you referred to. It seems that both sides were laminated. Well, the new cabinets will be MDF... [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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