HAMP Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm not sure if this is a audyessy question or speaker question In my bedroom, I switch out my Denon 789 for an Onkyo 805 Speakers: F2's C2 Quintet III's for surrounds Sub is a box built, but is using an Klipsch Sub12 amp plate When I run audyessy, it keeps making my C2 150hz, while the towers are full with the surrounds at 90hz. In the AVR, it set the LFE to 80hz. It does turn on the Double Bass, which is crap. I just don't get why it setting the Hz like it is and having those audio holes in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Did you use a tripod and use all Audyssey positions on setup? If so, I would: 1) turn off double bass 2) set a crossover for your mains at 80 Hz and not run them as "Full Range" 3) I am surprised it found your surrounds as 90 Hz but would leave them there. 4) 150 Hz for your center sounds slightly high, but if it is in a higher physical position, is still in the realm of possibilities. 5) If you mean that your subwoofers Low P*** Filter (not LFE) is set at 80 Hz you would want to go in and raise it to 120 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Audyssey did not make the full mains, 150Hz, 90 hz and double bass changes, the Onkyo did. I read about this on the Audyssey website FAQ. Use these settings after running Audyssey: LFE: 120Hz F-2: 45Hz C-2: 80Hz Quintet's: 120Hz Double bass: off Adjust the sub level so it sounds like it is an extension of the F-2's. You should have seemless sound down to 25 Hz. It is easy to use too much sub-bass. The easiest way to tell is it will not sound seemless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Mustang guy, could he set the LFE to 120 and X-over all speakers at 120 and turn the sub all the way up to 140-180? Then the sub would do all the bass. Also, set all speakers to small. This is a simpler way and usually sounds pretty good. What would he be missing? For two channel listening, set the speaker to large if the towers have more dynamic bass or just listen to music with the sub and not have to bother with switching back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Mustang guy, could he set the LFE to 120 and X-over all speakers at 120 and turn the sub all the way up to 140-180? Then the sub would do all the bass. Also, set all speakers to small. This is a simpler way and usually sounds pretty good. What would he be missing? For two channel listening, set the speaker to large if the towers have more dynamic bass or just listen to music with the sub and not have to bother with switching back and forth. I have tried that logic, and indeed it is close to the THX standard. THX is 80Hz for all speakers and LFE of 120 Hz for the LFE. That is fine for movies, but it is not musical at all. With music, the setting is small sounding. For music, you want the speakers to have as much range as possible. It is very time consuming to change settings back and forth, and music suffers a great deal more at high speaker crossovers, than movies do with mains set to full. What I do not like with his setup is the Quintets. Since they are the highest crossover speaker, and they are 120Hz, the setting makes the sub receive all bass below 120Hz. If they were a little bigger, say 80Hz+, then the sub would get ordinary cutoff bass below 80Hz unless it was a signal from the LFE channel on the recording. The sub gets both cutoff bass (anything below the frequency of the smallest speaker) plus the LFE. The overlap of the sub and the mains between 45 and 120Hz is the reason it will be harder to make the bass sound seemless. That can be manipulated by turning down the sub crossover dial on the sub to 80Hz, but then you lose 80-120Hz LFE from recordings. I think he should consider 80Hz or bigger speakers for the surrounds, but it isn't imperative. That way the sub would get bass below 80Hz and LFE full signal. Having the mains set low sounds better in movies and especially music. I have not measured the effect with a mic, just my ears. Your experience may vary due to room acoustics and cancellation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Mustang guy, could he set the LFE to 120 and X-over all speakers at 120 and turn the sub all the way up to 140-180? Then the sub would do all the bass. Also, set all speakers to small. This is a simpler way and usually sounds pretty good. What would he be missing? For two channel listening, set the speaker to large if the towers have more dynamic bass or just listen to music with the sub and not have to bother with switching back and forth. I have tried that logic, and indeed it is close to the THX standard. THX is 80Hz for all speakers and LFE of 120 Hz for the LFE. How is it close to the THX standard? [:^)] Fwiw, in the last part of your sentence you are talking about the Low Pass Filter (LPF) and NOT the Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel. EDIT: Btw, I'm not sure what a" Sub is a box built, but is using an Klipsch Sub12 amp plate," but it sounds like an interesting part of his system, that may or may not be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMP Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 My concern with changing the HZ on the center channel is having an audio hole, since audyessy set it to 150hz. My understanding from audyessy is, it is ok to turn the Hz up, but do not turn them down. Going from the 150hz to 80hz would give a big audio hole, and I really don't want one in the center channel. I also wasn’t sure if changing the tower from full to anything would cause that same hole.I thought it interesting that the quintets are at 90 instead of 120 myself. I did 6 of the spots with running audyessy. The sub is a personal built box, with a 10in woofer, it’s a sealed box and I am using an amp plate that goes to the Klipsch sub12.Long story on the personal built. I had two Kilpsch sub12’s, and I loved those guys. I decided I wanted to experiment with blending ported with sealed subs. I gotten two amp plates for this project. I had built the 10in enclosure, and it turned out ok at low volumes. Well before I could complete my project or start it, someone broke into my apartment and stole my HT. I replaced most and then moved out.Bought a house put my Klipsch stuff in the bedroom and bought Monitor Audio and SVS subs for my main, I just recently upgraded my Onkyo 805 with the Onkyo 5008 in the main, and now want to use the 805 in the bedroom with the Klipsch. I like the Klipsch/Onkyo combo better then with the Denon. Love the denon, just not with Klipsch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I like the Klipsch/Onkyo combo better then with the Denon. Love the denon, just not with Klipsch. Fwiw, you were comparing the lower end Denon to the upper end Onkyo which is not a fair comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There is nothing worse than a %%@$ thief! Very sorry to hear about the break in. I wish I had the exact link to the FAQ of Audyssey, where the head engineer was doing a Q&A. Somebody mentioned those crossovers being changed, and the LFE being changed, and he stated that Audyssey does not make these changes, the equipment manufacturer does. He told that person to set that LFE to 120Hz. As for changing the individual speaker HPF, that is my own personal experience with attempting to make HT systems as musical as possible without changing settings every time I go from movies to music. Your center channel will go down to 82Hz, and I personally think you should get as close to that as possible. Perhaps 85Hz. Maybe the microphone picked up a smaller "sounding" speaker due to reflections or speaker angle or something. The specs say they can do 82Hz, and I would not hesitate to set it at that number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMP Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 @Mauro Lowering the xover will send less content to the sub where the MultEQ filters have 8x more resolution. Also, MultEQ will not apply correction to the main speakers below the roll off point that it measured. So, I would not recommend lowering it. http://ask.audyssey.com/forums/84181/entries/76175.html and also, I agree, that comparing the Onkyo 805 to the Denon 789 is not a fair comparison. I wasn't calling myself comparing those two. I have always loved the Onkyo 805 with whatever speakers I use. I do also love the Denon 789, just not with the Klipsch. Denon really made some older HTiB speakers sound fantastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Mustang guy, could he set the LFE to 120 and X-over all speakers at 120 and turn the sub all the way up to 140-180? Then the sub would do all the bass. Also, set all speakers to small. This is a simpler way and usually sounds pretty good. What would he be missing? For two channel listening, set the speaker to large if the towers have more dynamic bass or just listen to music with the sub and not have to bother with switching back and forth. I have tried that logic, and indeed it is close to the THX standard. THX is 80Hz for all speakers and LFE of 120 Hz for the LFE. How is it close to the THX standard? Fwiw, in the last part of your sentence you are talking about the Low Pass Filter (LPF) and NOT the Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel. EDIT: Btw, I'm not sure what a" Sub is a box built, but is using an Klipsch Sub12 amp plate," but it sounds like an interesting part of his system, that may or may not be beneficial. edited line as my mind is slipping: When you stated 80Hz for the mains, and 90 for the surrounds, and said to lower the center because it did not sound right, it sounded like you were trying to set the speakers as close to THX reference 80Hz. Derrick was talking about making all the speakers a like crossover (120Hz), and letting the sub do the heavy work. That is like THX, in that they set the HPF at 80Hz, and let the sub do the heavy work. I can't seem to wake up today! LFE and LPF are two seperate things, but in my Onkyo stuff (I have 4 Onkyo systems), you do not have a setting for LPF. It is implied by the smallest speaker in your system. Hence his rears at 120Hz would be the implied LPF. You are right that Denon is an excellent company, and comparing the low end Denon to high end Onkyo is apples and oranges. The company I hear a lot of complaints about is Yamaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 @Mauro Lowering the xover will send less content to the sub where the MultEQ filters have 8x more resolution. Also, MultEQ will not apply correction to the main speakers below the roll off point that it measured. So, I would not recommend lowering it. http://ask.audyssey.com/forums/84181/entries/76175.html and also, I agree, that comparing the Onkyo 805 to the Denon 789 is not a fair comparison. I wasn't calling myself comparing those two. I have always loved the Onkyo 805 with whatever speakers I use. I do also love the Denon 789, just not with the Klipsch. Denon really made some older HTiB speakers sound fantastic. That stinks. It sounds like you are going to have to reposition the angle or reflections of the center so Audyssey hears it as the 82Hz+ speaker it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I agree, that comparing the Onkyo 805 to the Denon 789 is not a fair comparison. I wasn't calling myself comparing those two. I have always loved the Onkyo 805 with whatever speakers I use. I do also love the Denon 789, just not with the Klipsch. Denon really made some older HTiB speakers sound fantastic. You may "love the Denon 789 with other speakers" but I still contend your experience with Klipsch was not a fair comparison given my experience with mid-level to upper end Denons with Upper end Klipsch Reference Home Theaters. These units have historically had a good reputation with the speakers I mention and the ones that don't are the lower end units of ANY brand. I can't add anything else to this discussion except consider what I stated in my first post because it is what Audyssey recommends...Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMP Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 This is an older pic, the quintet center is in the photo. I have replaced it with the C2. This photo also shows the personal built subwoofer and Denon 789 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I would tilt the center channel to your LP and move it as far forward as you feel comfortable...I would also pull your mains out so their front is slightly ahead of your entertainment center. Then I would rerun Audyssey and make sure your microphone is on a tripod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMP Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 The center channel is pointed directly at the listening Position, I have a high bed. I also have it on the very edge so that I wouldnt get any reflection. I forgot to mention, I am using a boom, and not a tri-pod These are are some wierd numbers from my AVR. I am really suprised by the audio gap. Come to think about it, I wonder if I should raise the center and tilted it down some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 remember that a crossover is not a brick wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I had Klipsch satellites as a center, surrounds, and front heigt speakers with my VF 35's, they just were not a good match. You may have to eventually do the famous Klipsch upgrade thing. The match of your speakers may be the real problem. Audyessy measures frequency respone of the speakers and not how large or small the speakers are. Setting all speakers to one X-overs setting eliminates a lot of problems. For example, standing waves, phase issues, just to name a few. This is even more so with one sub. Audyessy does a good job with the bass management due to all the filters for the lower frequencies. I still have my Klipsch HD 500 set and use it as a second HT setup and really like it's performance. In my family room HT, I have all speakers set to small, even my VF 35 and VF 36 towers and use a X-over of 100. My sub is not directional with this setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 ,,,Setting all speakers to one X-overs setting eliminates a lot of problems. For example, standing waves, phase issues, just to name a few... Do you have a reference for this statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Just go on facebook and talk to Chris, I promise you he will know alot more than anyone here can tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.