akdave Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I am seriously in the market for a home theater set up with RF 7 II's, 64 center and RS 62's for surrounds. I am hunting for amps and have been looking seriously at the Elite SC 57. Does anyone have any thoughts on this and will it have any issues powering the whole setup? I'm probably going to start with 7.1 for now, and explore 9.1 later. I am looking at the Elite because I have a good relationship with a local dealer and will get a better price with Elite or Sony. Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance! New to the forum - LOVE the pics and comments you guys have up - I have no doubt I'll learn a lot here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I am seriously in the market for a home theater set up with RF 7 II's, 64 center and RS 62's for surrounds. I am hunting for amps and have been looking seriously at the Elite SC 57. Does anyone have any thoughts on this and will it have any issues powering the whole setup? I'm probably going to start with 7.1 for now, and explore 9.1 later. I am looking at the Elite because I have a good relationship with a local dealer and will get a better price with Elite or Sony. Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance! New to the forum - LOVE the pics and comments you guys have up - I have no doubt I'll learn a lot here! Welcome to the forum! The receiver you are looking at sounds nice (the SC 57 is not an amp). It is definitely the best thing Pioneer is producing right now. If you can get a good price from your dealer, I'd say pull the trigger. You are buying from somebody you know and buying locally and most importantly not from a big box store! Personally I would stick with the Pioneer Elite over the Sony stuff. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 dont waste your money on a sony. I am big on separates so ill make the suggestion to go that route. I like my emotiva umc-1 and outlaw 7125 combo and thatll run you about 1500. I suppose it all depends on your deal that you can get on the pioneer. When you starting dropping some more serious cash, the jump into separates is a worth while endevour in my opinion but to each his/her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 +2 [Y] for the Pioneer... I have personally listened to an SC-57. When set up correctly (the MCACC and all) it is, IMHO, one of the finest sounding AVRs on the market for playback of digital source material right now. I cannot however comment on all the whiz-bang DNLA features, nor how well it handles analog sources as I was not interested in those at the time I listened to it. It will serve your RF's very well sound-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Good point of clarification mustang thx! SubX I'll have to search around, I may decide to go the separate route, I am far less familiar with them as I don't have as much access to dealers with them in Alaska. I am very open to suggestions as I would like to get the most I can out of them. More thoughts on separates are appreciated. Thank you all for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 More thoughts on separates are appreciated. Thank you all for the feedback. Going seperate will get you penalized sound-wise at this price point. The best amps for digital sources handle the signal in the digital domain right up until the speaker output terminals. So unless the component amp directly accepts a digital bitstream (SPDIF or AES), you'll be transporting an analog signal and all audible issues that arise from doing so. There are component amps that directly accept digital bitstreams, but I feel they are overpriced for what they bring to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I do not own the SC 55 or 57 but, I have the SC 35. The SC 35 and 37 were Pioneer's last years top of the line models and are similar in a lot of ways to the 55 and 57. The Elite avr's are awesome from the power stand point and easy of operation. The analogue conversion is top notch and the MCACC is one of the best programs for room correction. I demo 2 Denon and a high quality Sony for several weeks prior to getting the SC 35. Amps can always be added to the SC 57 if you ever fill the need to expand your system. I have my HT in a 9.1 and really like having the front height speakers. The extended stereo function is great for listening to music. I did call Pioneer and asked about the SC 35 and 37 handling the impedance dips of the RF 7II's and they said it is not rated for those loads. If your system will have a good sub, this should not be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Thanks Quiet and derrick. I am looking at this setup for movie purposes first and foremost. I can get an elite at near cost which is a tremendous deal, I am wrestling with wether or not separates will make the cost difference worthwhile. I love the fact that my iPad can be my remote with the 57, but if I thought it would make a big difference to go the separate route, I'd hold out. I've read some emotiva reviews and they sound mixed on some levels. I realize with anthem, marantz and integra you can spend what you want or of course head to macs and so on. I'm just trying to weigh bang for the buck. I want to watch movies and be immersed. Thanks again all for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The secret to the SC's sound is how the D3 chipset handles the source signal and amplifies it, all in one shot. It's Pioneer's own take on the ol' Equibit topology. Emotiva, Outlaw, and many other component products are not in the same league in that respect. The difference in sound between the amplifier technologies is not a subtle one. [8] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Sorry for my ignorance Quiet - whats the equibit technology? I've read about the D3 technology in the sc, when you say not in the same league you mean the amplifiers are superior to this receiver? Thanks for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've read about the D3 technology in the sc, when you say not in the same league you mean the amplifiers are superior to this receiver? I meant it the other way around. D3 in the Pioneer is superior to component amplification for your RF's. whats the Equibit technology? It's a long read . It's a high-frequency, digital, integrated chip amplifier. It's nothing new, and Pioneer isn't the only company to have used similar technology, but they're the only ones that offer their take in an HT specific multichannel AVR along with advanced room-accommodating signal processing at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2012 FWIW akdave, why not try the receiver first. If it has preouts, you can always add an external amp down the road, then if you feel inclined to do so, you can move to a dedicated pre/pro. That was the progression that I took. I moved from my Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver to the Emotive UMC-1 Pre/Pro because I wanted better 2ch sound. For music, I do notice more detail, separation etc. The UMC-1 delivered on that. For movies, I don't think I noticed much difference in sound from my Yamaha receiver to the Emotiva Pre/Pro. There is definitely MUCH more bass in my system since moving to the Emotiva. That could be just the settings more than the actual UMC-1 unit itself. Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Outstanding - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This is how the chip amps get their rich mid range and distortion-free top end sound. The signal is digital (ie. superior noise rejection and completely faithful to the original sample) right up to the output filter. The signal is amplified entirely in the digital domain and suffers no phase anomalies from feed back loops or audible distortion added from the components it passes through. At the output filter, the now completely amplified analog signal, passes through only three physical components in the final network, two inductors and your speaker. It's the least complicated path an analog signal has to make, in any amp I've ever seen. If the original sound was analog in the first place (instruments, vocals, etc.), instead of reading the amp with D3 and other chip-amp technologies, you're speakers are essentailly seeing the recording studio's A/D ( a 1st generation digital signal, barring any error correction). The signal is an exceptionally faithful reproduction of the digital master from the studio to your speakers. This is one of those technologies that separates the cream from the milk with digital media. It is neither trivial in process or result. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Wonderful info Quiet - thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 One point I left out is that the SC 57 is 4 ohm stable. This was not the case with prior Elite avr's. Therefore, impedance dips of the 7's should not be as big of a concern as with older elite avr's. But, your question was on the matter of needing a separate amp. When I first joined this forum that was one of my questions, woul I benefit from an amp. The answer was no due to the SC's power rating. I do use amps with my SC 35 and feel that there is a distinct difference when listening to movies and music. Most notable in the bass and midrange frequencies. When listening near reference level, the SC 35 sounded thin and lacked some clairty. I purchased a couple of Yamaha amps from the used market. With the amps intergrated into my system, thinning and clarity are not an issue, and the bass has more deapth. This may be due to higher current flow, not watts, in a dedicated amp that lead to better driver control. The D3 amp may not have these limitations compared to the B&O ice amp in the SC 35 . This experience cannot be extrapolated to the RF 7's with superior specs compared to my Icon's. But, the 7's are rated 250-1000 watts. I wonder how well transient peak will be handled in the 7's. To amp or not to amp, you will most likely have to try it to really know wether it will be beneficial to you. It is the handling of peaks that make a difference in HT applications for music and movies. I have searche the internt and forums on power amps vs Class D amps in avr's and was not able to finding much meaningful information. I originally brought my system for movies/music, 90/10. But now use it 50/50 because it does so well with music. I am sure more knowledgeable form members will chime in on this discussion. I still consider myself a newbie to this forum and have a lot still to learned. Your next question concerning the Pioneer Elite avr will most likely be on bass management, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 How did you know? :-) noobs must be easy to spot from a mile away! That was a direction I was going to head next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 When you run MCACC see how you like the sound. Play some music and this will allow you to evaluate the sub for boominess, directionality and the bass quality. There are two basic ways to set your speaker for the HT. The first one is setting all speakers to small and the second one is to leave some speakers set to large. If you need more help we should go on the subwoofer forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtrp Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hey Dave, I am here in AK also. I can't recommend separates enough. I noticed a vast improvement by adding an Emo XPA amp to my Reference system. I would argue having an amp driven 5.1 system is heads and shoulders above running a 7.1 system off a receiver only. My Denon just didn't have enough horse power for my liking. Sales people and others always like to tell you "Klipsch are just sooooo efficient, they really don't need an amp..." Blah Blah Blah. Bottom line, I have never heard a speaker that did not benefit from better amplification, and it just so happened that Emo fit my budget. -25db volume on my Denon sounds like -10db used to sound with the system being driven by the receiver alone in terms of sheer loudness. Now you strip out the distortion and let the receiver process and let the amp amplify. To my ear, there is way more depth and clarity to every source once you hook up an external amplifier. Mid bass sounds much more rich. No clipping, massive headroom and excellent clarity. Stay away from Sony. Don't even bother looking at 'watts per channel' on the receiver. Just focus on finding something in your budget that will fit all your input / processing needs and leave the amplification to a separate. Check out Audiogon, the Klipsch Garage Sale, Ebay and Emo Emporioum online for good deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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