Placing a subwoofer in line with the REAR speakers?

[fs1]

Is it all right to place a subwoofer beside the couch in line with the rear speakers in a partial-corner directly below the left surround speaker?

Please see attached jpeg diagram......

[Guest BobG]

I've done precisely that with excellent results. wire it via speaker level and then on to the rears.

[t-man]

fs1,

From your diagram, it looks as though you only have 1 subwoofer. IF so, don't wire it as BobG suggests, or you will only get bass to your sub from rear channel info! As this appears to be the only corner in your HT area, this is probably the best location for your sub. I would certainly try it. Should work OK.

T-man

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KG 5.5 (mains)

KLF-C7 (center)

KG 1 (rears)

SVS 20-39CS+ (sub)

Aura Bass Shakers (pair)

Kenwood amp for sub and shakers

Denon AVR 681/1601

[avman]

i put my rsw-15 in the right rear corner, and it works GREAT! be sure to roll-off the bass above 80Hz so as to not generate any 'directional' bass from the sub.

and use the sub out w/rca patch. avman.

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1-pair klf 30's

c-7 center

ksps-6 surrounds

RSW-15

sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1

sony playstation 2

sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer

dishnetwork model 6000 HD sat rcvr w/digital off-air tuner

sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv

sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen

Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture

panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner

monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire

Natuzzi red leather furniture set

KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz!

[Guest BobG]

T-man is correct, my advice was assuming you were adding a second sub. If you have just one sub, ignore my post. Sorry to give you bad info.

[Ray Garrison]

I'd also try it centered between the rear speakers right up against the back of the couch. I tried this once and it worked fine, only problem was I couldn't leave it that way 'cause floor is tile on concrete slab and there was no way to protect / hide the cables.

Given those large openings to the sides in your room, I think you'll find it impossible to use any "traditional" methods for predicting where the sub will sound best. Move it all over the place, you might find a spot where you get magically great bass. That might very well be the corner where you show it; then again, it might not.

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Music is art

Audio is engineering

Ray's Music System

[pierceb]

I was thinking the exact same thing (I don't have a subwoofer yet.

My current setup is exactly what is depicted in your diagram except that I have a closed wall long the right side. There just isn't much room in the front for a sub. I don't want to buy 40 feet worth of sub cable if I won't like it.

The sub will be close to the couch (listening position), will it overpower other speakers?

-PB

[HornEd]

Pierceb, an adequate, good quality sub should be set up to extend the bass so transparently that you will think the low sounds are coming from the various speakers in the room other than the sub. Just be sure that the sub is not generating sounds over 80Hz since frequencies below that are not localized by the human ear.

Also, your sub should be set up using a SPL meter. Most people set their subs at 4 or 5 dB higher than the rest of their speakers. But that you should determine as your personal choice.

If you buy a passive subwoofer, like many of the SVS subs popular with Klipsch Forum members, you can avoid the expensive sub cable. Keep your sub power amp on your rack and run 12 gauge to your passive sub.

Good luck on your learning and upgrade curve! -HornED

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Photo update soon! -HornEd

[fs1]

Uh-oh...about the crossover: I'm using a Harman Kardon AVR2000 with a fixed crossover at 100Hz, and mini-bookshelves with 4" woofers (JBL SCS178) that can only go down to 100Hz. So, I really have to make use of the 100Hz x-over on my receiver. In this case, where bass up to around ~100Hz will still go to the subwoofer, will it still be ok to place the sub as in my diagram?

Secondly, if I do this, I will have to plug the subwoofer directly to a wall-plug, w/o any surge protectors, while my receiver and source are plugged in a surge protector which in turn is plugged into the 2nd socket on the same wall-plug (whew!). Will this be harmful to the sub? Will this produce ground-loop humming/buzzing?

Thirdly, in case rear placement is not feasible, I can, as another option, place the sub near the front left speaker and also near the receiver. Is this all right; won't the vibrations from the sub, if in proximity with the left front and receiver, not cause harmful vibrations on said speaker and receiver? (Please see second attached JPG file)

Fourthly, in either case the donwfiring subwoofer will be placed on top of tiles-over-concrete floor. How will this affect sound as compared to a hardwood floor?

Thanks

This message has been edited by fs1 on 05-24-2002 at 05:42 PM

[fs1]

2nd file

[HornEd]

fs1... the odds are that the "corner" will be the best location... it should give your sub near a 6dB boost. For the time being, you should be able to live with the 20Hz disparity in idealized settings in order to cover the gap between ideal subwoofer high and existing speaker lows.

I just use a quality powerstrip on my rack mounted subwoofer amp. One of the easiest ways to stop a ground loop is to break the hum by using a two prong "cheater" plug. -HornED

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Photo update soon! -HornEd

[pierceb]

Thanks for your help HornEd! Your assistance to us newbie's is greatly appreciated.

I have a Denon 3802 and can cut my low pass at 80hz (wish it was lower). So, from what you are saying, I guess placement beside the listening position won't be big deal.

I will get an SPL meter when the time comes to set it all up correctly.

As much as I'd like too (well LOVE too) go with SVS's canisters of doom, my wife does not like them. She doesn't even like my RF-7's for that matter, except when I play music (a little Diana Krall can do wonders to change her opinion). So I was thinking one, maybe two, Paradigm PW2200's or a Servo 15 will have to suffice as they're reasonably priced here in Canada. As such, I'm sure will need a long subwoofer cable.

-PB

My current HT setup is considered temporary until I can do some extensive house renovations (year or two down the road). I don't mind spending the money on the equipment, but I have problems spending lots on cables and wires right now, especially when I might have to replace them when I relocated my HT in the future.

[fs1]

HornEd et al: Thanks for the helful advice

[fs1]

I forgot to ask: Doesn't corner-loading produce "muddy" bass without using an equalizer?

Thanks again

[TheEAR]

"I forgot to ask: Doesn't corner-loading produce "muddy" bass without using an equalizer?"

NOPE

Unless a subwoofer is crossed over way too high,and its not muddy but may be BOOMY.

An SVS,Aerial...any quality sub will not lose quality with corner placement.And Bob Carver strongly recomends corner placement,it reinforces the output.

I place my subs along side the wall,often quite close to corners.Why I dont place them in corners...I would run out of corners.

Its all in the fine tuning

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[HornEd]

You'll find a lot of well meaning types on this Forum... and some of them really are quite knowledgeable. And, if someone gives some less than popular advice, the odds are that more than a few folks will speak up and clear the air!

Pierceb the PW2200 is a great little sub that's hard to beat if your a Canadian... it is all in a sub that Nuance is not in a speaker. TheEar(s), the Forum's resident Canadian bass expert gives the Paradigm high marks... especially for value in Canada. As for the Nuance, he dislikes it so he will not type its name without putting a * in place of one of the letters.

So, now that you are saving so much money on the sub(s) don't you think you should turn the room around and put the sub and the TV in the corner... that way you can save on cable too. Hmm, would probably have to Krall through that one.

As usual, fs1, TheEar(s) is on target with his muddy monologue. Muddy base tends to stem from subwoofers extending beyond their range. Sound waves below about 80Hz are non-directional and the lower you go the longer they get... until they are over 30' long! Motors that are designed to make long waves increasingly lose efficiency until they sound "muddy".

Sometimes woofers designed for mid bass and above venture into the low bass and muddy it up since that is where they lose their efficiency.

I like to keep my subs at less than 80Hz because then the listener's ear will pick out the direction of the bass harmonic... and think the low bass is coming from that speaker... instead of from a sub across the room and behind the couch. Strange stuff this audio. Welcome aboard. -HornED

[fs1]

So, I'll corner load then

Regarding corner loading, is it advisable to have the subwoofer positioned at an equal distance from each of the perpendicular walls in a corner (say 5 cm to both walls), or is it better to have it at different distances from the side partial wall, and the back wall (say 5 cm from back wall, 10 cm from partial side wall)?

[HornEd]

Good question fs1... and, fortunately, you are in the best position to answer it!

Few speaker placements are a tricky and surprising as the placement of a good subwoofer. Since low bass waves are so long... they behave quite differently in the manner by which their reflections bounce about and cancel or reinforce different frequencies in different room locations.

Sometimes just a few cm's (or inches) one way or another will significantly affect the sound in the sweetspot... or even down the hall! There are three keys to placing a sub.

1. Experiment

2. Use an SPL meter

3. Repeat step #1

Enjoy the pursuit of low-down Hz in pursuit of higher dB education in your HT environment! -HornED

[fs1]

All right, HornEd

BTW, about my previous question, is it ok to have the subwoofer near my receiver (Harman Kardon AVR2000), or will the vibrations from the sub damage or make the unit function unstably?