moray james Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 wondering id someone can direct me to a adaptor to run a quad of standard one inch exit drives into a single one inch exit with a standard thread? Thank you for the help. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You mean like one of these: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 M-70 / CAT NO: 04-3221 • adapter, converts four 1" bolt-on horns to one 1" horn lens Sugg. List : $ 59.00 Your Price : $ 51.00 QTY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 That's exactly it. So what is it called and where do I find them? Thanks and best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It's the quad manifold throat from EV, the exit is actually 2" with the standard 4" BC. BEC can order it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 sorry I got excited to see what I was looking for but I was not able to tell if it was what I was after. I want to use either two or possibly four one inch exit drivers probably bolt on better than screw on to drive a horn with a standatd one inch threaded throat. Am looking to optomize low frequency output response of the horn. Sorry for not being more direct in the first place. Thank you for the help. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 What you want to do will not sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Shoot, I was afraid of that. Lots of diaphragm area lower distortion due to lower travel. I guess that there is too much deformation and or cancelation of the waveform inside of the adapter? There is always a catch. Thanks for letting me know Dennis as this would have been expensive to do even with used drivers, So what are the flies in this ointment? I was under the impression after looking at the EV Bible that this could be done so I take it that it works but it just is not high fidelity? So what would be the best second opton to do what I want to and then (option three) how do I do it properly? Option three always looks to be more expensive and it is but it is usually chaper to do thiings right just once that to piddle around spending time and money only to decide the right way was best adter all. Thanks. I thought I had figured out how to cheat the system. Best regards Moray James. Ps: a pair of big peavey horns (SP1) are on the way and a set of drivers with starter passive networks are in line to do the same. What would be my best driver direction to run these (in home) as low as possibe to make a good two way starter system. Am open to all options. Have been thinking of a FH-1 woofer underneath the SP1 horn but the horns KG4guy built look attractive (still want to see the measurements). Ultimately these will need a sub or two and perhaps a couple of harmonic sparkle makers (tweeters). Two way is a good start and I figured these would give me a very good ide of what large hors sound like without the big dollar large format drivers necessary for most of the other large horns out there (2 inch exit). I am wondering what a conical the size of a K402 sounds like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 "So what are the flies in this ointment? " To much pressure per square cm of area. A K55V has a 5/8" throat, a 2" throat has over 10x the area, so at a given sound pressure the pressure per unit of area is 1/10th as much and the distorting goes down. The MF1X/SP1 horn has a real problem with air overload in the throat, even a single K55V can overload the air and make 'quacking' and 'frying bacon sounds at high levels. Dog forbid you use a dual Y adaptor and mount two drivers on that horn (as I once did), really bad news. You want low distortion, get a pair of Community M-200 and run with a good tweeter. A typical driver has a 10:1 compression ratio between the diaphragm area and the area of the phase-plug, the M-200 is only 2:1 so it sounds quite a bit better. The M-200 does not measure dead flat though, so it is dismissed by the meter-reader types. Avantgarde uses it in their Trio model with a Beyma CP380M for the HF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Dennis: thanks. I don't have any hands on experience with the peavey horns (but they are on the way now) so can you tell me at what kind of levels I would expect to reach overload with them? So if I went the Community M200 route I would need to run with a 2" to 1" adapter? What large format horns would you suggest that will do what I am looking to do (two way now, PPSL sub later)? I am thinking that your comment on overloadint the horn throat really apply if you are considering very high output. In my situation I am looking to have enough diaphragm area to support 400 to 500 Hz playback and to achiev a four fould reduction in distortion. If I play at the same kind of levels I am playing at now then the amount of air in the thraot will stay pretty much constant except for the added air to cover the lower response. I would think that for in home monitoring I would not be overloading the horn throat even with the lower response. I don't know with any certainty as I have not tried this but I should be good. If people are using EQ to play the horn down to 500 Hz and it sounds ok with one driver that way then four drivers doing the same thing without EQ will sound a lot cleaner due to their lower distortion. Am I missing something here? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 You would not want to use a 2" driver on a 1" horn. Even at moderate levels an M-200 sounds better than a high compression ratio 2" driver like a JBL, which in turn sounds better than a 1" driver. Horns with narrow 'tails' like the Peavey should be avoided if possible. The tail is much taller and shallower on something like an HR9040, and it sounds quite a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 I thought the m200 is a 2 inch exit driver? were you not suggesting I use the m200 on the SP! Peavey? Sorry if I am confused. Which horn would you suggest to do a two way with an M200? I was looking at HR9040 but availability and size were comming into play. I found some but a long way away. The Peavey is a big horn (not near as big as the HR9040) and should give me a good idea of what to expect from a large horn. Going back to the air overload issue level for level whether I use one driver or four the air velocity in the throat will be the same. Is there another component of this I am glossing over? I accept that the lower compression ratio M200 will sound better than a high compression 2 inch exit horn but what about four one inch exit horns? Has anybody here done this and could they comment on what they found. This is a complicated path to go down. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 No one in their right mind would suggest using a 2" on a 1" horn, why do you even need claification on this point? " Which horn would you suggest to do a two way with an M200?" Are you kidding? Why did you think I said "and run with a good tweeter."? "the air velocity i" Are you kidding? Do you really think pressure and velocity are the same thing? "2 inch exit horn" I hope you mean 2" entry. "what about four one inch exit horns?" That might be OK if you sum the wavefronts properly and you could find a low compression ratio 1" driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Dennis I think if you would expand a littl when you tell someone something they would not have so many stupid questions to follow up with. Frustration on both sides of the conversation would be reduced I know why you said to run a good tweeter I don't know why you were suggesting a horn that would require a tweeter when I was talkig about building a two way monitor. I appologize for mixing terms, air pressure in the throat is what will cause the throat to overload. Likewise sorry for the confussion using exit where entry was the correct term. A little less angst and a little more compassion and discusssions could be more fruitfull. The Peavey CH1 looks to be a good horn which was well designed, they are cheap and easy to find. I suppose that a pair of EV HR6040 with DH1a would be a good step up buthey are much harder for me to find and cost a lot more. For now I will cut my teeth on the Peavey to see what I think about large horns. Thanks for trying to help me Dennis and sorry that caused you frustration. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 A K55V has a 5/8" throat Dennis, do you mean 7/8"? I didn't want to spin off one of my K55s, but on the EV 1828R drivers I have, the throat is 7/8". I thought the Klipsch/Atlas was the same.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 PWK says it is 0.700", if you pull the screen and measure at that point (about 0.0625" back) it looks like 0.625". If you use the figures from PWK then the ratio of throat area is still 8.16 : 1 (0.38465 sq in vs 3.1416 sq in), and the distortion is still proportional the amount of pressure per square unit of area. The correct adaptor from the Atlas driver to a 1" horn (bolt-on) is the DA-FH. The YDA-TH adapts two Atlas drivers to a 1" entry horn (1-3/8" 18TPI) . Both of these have the 0.625" entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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