bijaker1 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Hey Guys, I've been looking around for a power amp for a while in order to give my system some more oomph and I need some help. First of all, I have a Yamaha htr-6030 receiver (which I've been using to drive the speakers) which I would like to use as a preamp, although I do not know for sure if this is possible. I have read that in order to use a receiver as a preamp it must have preamp outputs, and as far as I can tell none of the outputs are labelled preamp or anything like that. Here is a picture of the back for reference: Link Here are a few used power amps that caught my eye. Here they are with their prices: Samick SMP 6000 --- $120 Ashley FTX 1500 --- $150 Niles SI-2125 --- $250 Peavey PMA 200 --- $75 I don't necessarily care about looks and I would be willing to go with one of the proamps and buy the necessary cables to do it. Please let me know what you think of these. Oh I have KG 5.2s which the amp will be driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The receiver you have does not have preamp outs. Also, every amp you list is stereo, or two channel only. You will need to answer a few questions to help us better answer your questions, because the advice can be limitless... Do you only have two speakers? Are you listening to music only, or will you be using this for movies and music? If the answer to the above is 2 speakers, and mostly music, then I suggest you look at a vintage stereo receiver. Here are some Marantz receivers on fleabay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-2270-Vintage-Audiophile-Receiver-Excellent-condition-Sounds-Awesome-/261001342027?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cc4e46c4b http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-2270-AM-FM-Stereo-Receiver-/350555074823?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item519eb5f107 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARANTZ-2270-Vintage-Stereo-Receiver-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/140740227409?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20c4c57151 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARANTZ-2265B-VINTAGE-STEREO-RECEIVER-POWERFUL-Beautiful-Buy-Now-/170827217120?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27c61878e0 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-2245-Stereophonic-Receiver-/190667429173?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c64aa1535 I think these receivers look pretty cool, and if you get a nice one, it will hold it's value. IMO, the prices on these units is low right now. I didn't review these listings, I just made the list. There are many more than this currently listed on ebay. You speakers can take anything any of these receivers can dish out, and the power rating will be more realistic than the rating on your current receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bijaker1 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yes I am only looking for a two channel setup and I only have two speakers. I will be using this amp for 80% music and 20% movies. I looked at those vintage amps you posted and they look nice, although a bit expensive. My budget is about $300, that's why the pro amps looked so appealing. power rating will be more realistic than the rating on your current receiver. What do you mean? Will the Marantz amps you posted (rated for 70WPC) actually put out more power than the Yamaha I have (rated 100WPC)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 What do you mean? Will the Marantz amps you posted (rated for 70WPC) actually put out more power than the Yamaha I have (rated 100WPC)? Yes, the power delivery will be more effortless and the bass drive will be more noticeable. The Marantz will have a warmer tonal signature as opposed to the Yamaha being on the brighter side of neutral. The Marantz 2270 is one of the better receivers to come out of the late 70's receiver wars, not the most powerful of the bunch but very good sound quality, IMO. The 2265B and the 2245 are also great choices. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Look for some used Yamaha Power amp M series or MX series on Ebay. These are great amps and simple to setup and use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bijaker1 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Thanks guys for all the help! I've been looking on ebay/craigslist and found a few. While I did not find any 2270s or 2265s, I did find a 2226B on CL for $135 (no shipping as I would pick it up). Another interesting find was a pair of Marantz MA500U Monoblock amps for $100 each also on CL. What do you guys think? Look for some used Yamaha Power amp M series or MX series on Ebay Do you think these will sound better than the Yamaha I currently have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Thanks guys for all the help! I've been looking on ebay/craigslist and found a few. While I did not find any 2270s or 2265s, I did find a 2226B on CL for $135 (no shipping as I would pick it up). Another interesting find was a pair of Marantz MA500U Monoblock amps for $100 each also on CL. What do you guys think? Look for some used Yamaha Power amp M series or MX series on Ebay Do you think these will sound better than the Yamaha I currently have? How do you think you will hook them up to your receiver or are you going to buy a preamp. You can't hook one of these amplifiers to the speaker outputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I did find a 2226B on CL for $135 (no shipping as I would pick it up). Another interesting find was a pair of Marantz MA500U Monoblock amps for $100 each also on CL. What do you guys think? I think if all are in good condition you should get them. Try the 2226B by itself or connect the MA-500's to the left right preouts and give your system some needed headroom that the 2226B by itself will not provide. I used a pair of MA-500's with my 2252B powering Heresys, Quartets, and RB-5's, all with very good results. I think adding the MA-500's will enhance what the 2226B provides with plenty of headroom and bass drive capability. Those MA-500's are easy to sell for $100.00 or more if you choose you don't need/want them later on. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bijaker1 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 I think I may just go with that setup. I'm speaking to both of the sellers now. Thanks for the help guys. I do have another question though; would I even need the Marantz 2226B as a preamp if I'm going to be using a DAC connect to my computer? Can't I just connect the DAC to the Marantz monoblocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I do have another question though; would I even need the Marantz 2226B as a preamp if I'm going to be using a DAC connect to my computer? Can't I just connect the DAC to the Marantz monoblocks? Your computer is your digital music source and the DAC coverts that signal to analog which is fed into a preamp of some sort(2226B) which boosts the signal to drive an amplifier(MA-500) which powers your speakers. Unless your DAC has preouts, there is no way to connect to your MA-500's RCA inputs. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bijaker1 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 I was planning on getting one of these: HRT Music Streamer II (Link) Which has an output rated at 2.25V RMS. The input sensitivity of the Marantz Monoblocks is 1V. Does this mean that a preamp is needed to reduce the output signal of the Music Streamer to match the 1V of the amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yes, the old yamaha amps are know as lengendary amp. They were made with all the best part, beside the speaker connection terminals. They have been compared to McIntosh. They are powerful and don't seem to have problems with ground loops, hiss, gain, or distortion. My M 70 have better control of my speaker than my avr and you can hear a pin drop between songs. I liked them so much I had them set back to factory specs with new caps and resistors. You don't have to do that, but I plan on keeping mine for awhile.http://legendaryamps.com/latest.html, http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/yamaha/m-85/prd_116248_1583crx.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bijaker1 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 I could not find any old Yams (M or MX series) in my price range, but I will keep my eyes peeled for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1504-5 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I think I may just go with that setup. I'm speaking to both of the sellers now. Thanks for the help guys. I do have another question though; would I even need the Marantz 2226B as a preamp if I'm going to be using a DAC connect to my computer? Can't I just connect the DAC to the Marantz monoblocks? If you plan to control volume with the pc/HRT Music Streamer II, you won't need the 2226B. What sound chip/card and OS does your pc have now? With the exception of the Ashly, a quick google search reveals the amps in the OP are pretty crappy. Unless something is amiss with your Yamaha htr-6030, the 125w mono blocks probably won't make much of a difference. You might want to consider the cost of recapping especially if you're interested in the MA-500's, as they have known cap failures. When buying used receivers/amps "as is", you should at the very least check DC offset, prior to purchase. http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5634 I myself would take a tone generator and dummy load, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Unless something is amiss with your Yamaha htr-6030, the 125w mono blocks probably won't make much of a difference. My experience is just the opposite. Adding a pair of MA-500's to my 100w/channel Onkyo TX-SR705 really brought some ooomph to my Fortes, as well as my Quartets, Heresys, and RB-5's. The soundstage really opened up and more detail was obvious in the midrange. As mentioned before, adding the MA-500's to my 2252B really enhanced the great qualities it possesses with plenty of headroom. That Yamaha is a near entry level AVR with a pretty weak power supply/amp section and weighs in at mere 17.6 lbs. One MA-500 alone weighs 13.22 lbs. which indicates a pretty stout transformer and power caps. I know weight does not mean everything but the MA-500's chassis is not where the weight is. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bijaker1 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 If you plan to control volume with the pc/HRT Music Streamer II, you won't need the 2226B. What sound chip/card and OS does your pc have now? That's great as I don't want to have to spend another $135+. I am currently using onboard audio: ALC662 with Windows 7 OS (that's why I want to add the DAC). I think I may have jumped on the mono blocks too early. I bought them today (before reading 1504-5's post) after demoing them at the owner's house. They sounded good at moderate volume on a pair of low-quality Sony speakers. When I got home and hooked them up to my KGs they sounded noticeably (although not horribly) worse than my Yamaha at low volumes. As soon as I turned it up the amps lost all sound and started making a clicking noise. I looked online and the source of the click is from the protection circuitry cutting off power to the amp. This kept happening at around the same volume (about 76-80dBA so not too loud at all! My Yamaha can make the KG's put out 97dBA!). Was I tricked? The owner did not play them any louder than 75dB (in retrospect I was stupid not to ask him to). What should I do? Attempt a repair (from what I saw it is most likely bad caps that need to be replaced)? Attempt a return? PS I checked the DC offset and it seems to be in range: 10mV on both amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1504-5 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I think I may have jumped on the mono blocks too early. I bought them today (before reading 1504-5's post) after demoing them at the owner's house. They sounded good at moderate volume on a pair of low-quality Sony speakers. When I got home and hooked them up to my KGs they sounded noticeably (although not horribly) worse than my Yamaha at low volumes. As soon as I turned it up the amps lost all sound and started making a clicking noise. I looked online and the source of the click is from the protection circuitry cutting off power to the amp. This kept happening at around the same volume (about 76-80dBA so not too loud at all! My Yamaha can make the KG's put out 97dBA!). Was I tricked? The owner did not play them any louder than 75dB (in retrospect I was stupid not to ask him to). What should I do? Attempt a repair (from what I saw it is most likely bad caps that need to be replaced)? Attempt a return? PS I checked the DC offset and it seems to be in range: 10mV on both amps. And this why I hate suggesting old electronics to noobs (no offense). I'm sorry you missed my post, but to be fair I did add the part about the MA-500 caps last night, most likely after you made the purchase. Return the amps ASAP! If the owner refuses, talk to a lawyer - the 1st session is free, although you may want to verify this. This is a known defect - research and print online info. Also print the ad and this thread, as it establishes a timeline. Even if the lawyer says the seller did nothing wrong, ask how much it would cost to have the lawyer send the seller a friendly reminder (threat letter). Most people are ignorant/scared to death of the legal system (my neighboors for instance), especially if they know they were less than honest, which seems to be the case here. I would not suggest recapping them yourself unless you are experienced - apparently the circuit boards are cheap and easily damaged. "The Marantz has a crappy circuit board made overseas so extreme care must be taken when working on it. When made the leads are bent over and hard to get out without damaging the foil on the PC board. If you are not capable of doing this I would suggest taking it to a repair facility and having them do it." http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/101345-marantz-ma500-only-50hz-output.html#post1202877 -- "Marantz MA-500 cutting out..." http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/210988-marantz-ma-500-cutting-out.html -- "Be aware though if they are more than 4 years old they WILL need a capacitor change job..They ALL need a cap job sooner or later."http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2829191&postcount=3 -- "Yup, seems the accountants forced them to use El Cheapo Wonton Noodle caps that could not take the heat. Rule of thumb here, after 4 years they are on borrowed time. Like I said the amps run warm, the bad caps affected the self protection mode and the amps would shut down with only a few watts output." http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2829781&postcount=6 -- Buying used gear (other peoples junk) is always a crap shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1504-5 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 If you plan to control volume with the pc/HRT Music Streamer II, you won't need the 2226B. What sound chip/card and OS does your pc have now? That's great as I don't want to have to spend another $135+. I am currently using onboard audio: ALC662 with Windows 7 OS (that's why I want to add the DAC). The 24 bit HRT Music Streamer II is an excellent choice for your needs, although it may or may not make a noticeable difference over your onboard DAC. If you're leaning towards "audiophile" performance, control the volume after the DAC with a preamp. Again, depending on your system/media, this also may or may not be an improvement compared to your onboard audio. Here are some guides for setting up Win 7 audio.http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/downloads/Windows_7_Optimization_Guide.pdfhttp://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_7_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This type of problem is the reason when I purchased a couple of use Yamaha M 70 amps in Jan., I immediately took them to a shop and had them checked out. I did replace some caps, and other components and had the units set back to factory specs. I did not mine spending the extra money because I plan on keeping them for a while. Cap replacement may not be to much if you feel the amp is worth it. A more knowledgable Klipsch forum member guided me through the purchase, restoration and operational setup of the amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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