Subwoofer to go whith my LaScala's

[Moose3861]

Can any one tell me if I was to buy a Subwoofer what I should get to match my LaScala's?

[LousyTourist]

I had very good luck with a 15" sealed servo controlled Velodyne sub with my klipschorns. They could easily go up another 1/2 octave or so to match with LaScalas.... the Velodyne box is about as big as a LS already

The reason I went with sealed v. vented is because they seem more musically accurate to my ears. And servo controlled for the anal retentive part of me that wants the signal to be just so.

[NOSValves]

What ever it is it has to be fast!

[alexg5775]

I have the paradigm servo 15a and i think it does it good job of keeping up with la scalas. Some people can run la scalas and not feel the need for a sub, some do feel the need for a sub so it depends on you. If its mostly for music i dont think you will need such a powerfull sub, if its mostly for movies then yes, a powerful sub is going to be needed.

La scalas have great sq and lots of output so try to get sub with good output and good sq and keep up and blend with la scalas. Dont go cheap on sub... You can also try a search, this topic has been covered. Hope I helped.

Alex

[Quiet_Hollow]

Can any one tell me if I was to buy a Subwoofer what I should get to match my LaScala's?

Some of these are powered, some will require component amplification. All are quite large, but would compliment the La Scala nicely:

Velodyne Servo Sub

Rythmik Servo Sub

Bill Fitzmaurice THT

JTR Orbit Shifter LFU

Danley DTS-20 or TH-50

[Chris A]

I think it should be pointed out that any direct radiating sub will have much higher AM and FM distortion figures than the horn-loaded subs. These types of distortion are non-harmonic--meaning that it is much more objectionable to hear than harmonic distortion, and will sound "muddier" as you give it more band-pass to cover. This is why a Khorn bass bin sounds so clean - AM and FM distortion are both way, way, down as compared to a direct-radiating woofer.

For instance: the La Scala bass bin's FR begins to fall off at ~90-100 Hz, then your sub will need to reproduce frequencies at ~100-120 Hz (at least) in order to cover the crossover with your La Scalas. If you are trying to reproduce frequencies from ~20 Hz to ~100 Hz, that will be 2 1/4 octaves (i.e., 20-40 Hz, 40-80 Hz, 80-100 Hz), and AM distortion with a direct radiating sub will be more severe than than if you crossed over at 40-50 Hz.

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

For instance: the La Scala bass bin's FR begins to fall off at ~90-100 Hz, then your sub will need to reproduce frequencies at ~100-120 Hz (at least) in order to cover the crossover with your La Scalas. If you are trying to reproduce frequencies from ~20 Hz to ~100 Hz, that will be 2 1/4 octaves (i.e., 20-40 Hz, 40-80 Hz, 80-100 Hz), and AM distortion with a direct radiating sub will be more severe than than if you crossed over at 40-50 Hz.

X-over between 40-60 Hz would be just fine.

[Chris A]

X-over between 40-60 Hz would be just fine.

Do you have your La Scalas in the corners of the room? This will help to cross over at that lower frequency.

[Chris A]

Also see http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/108741/1096987.aspx

[Quiet_Hollow]

Up against the wall.

I just run the La Scala full-range. Set the sub to LPF to 40Hz and let it dig.

[Chris A]

Up against the wall...I just run the La Scala full-range. Set the sub to LPF to 40Hz

Have you run something like REW in-room to check on-axis FR?

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

Have you run something like REW in-room to check on-axis FR?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3BvwaE5d8

Spaced at anything less than 15 feet apart, a single speaker's stereo partner becomes it's own worst enemy in the bass region, second only to the room...horn bass bins point out this acoustic catch-22 quite blatantly. One could go chasing FR all day, but usually at the expense of transient response and possibly their own sanity.

In light of that, I just grin and make the best of it. With La Scala's any comb filtering and / or room node is fairly audible simply by playing test tones and shuffling around the room.

[Chris A]

In light of that, I just grin and make the best of it.

Have you thought about EQing in mono using one speaker at a time?

You do know that the minimum stereo angle as empirically determined by PWK is ~12 to 30 degrees. Right? How far back do you sit from your La Scalas?

I have another question: why do folks post their speakers playing music on Youtube? I assume that they understand that this is limited by recording equipment used, the bandwidth limits placed on Youtube audio tracks (MP3-like) and the reproduction audio chain on the output side of the setup. It seems to me that you have to be there to actually hear what you hear. Right? Am I missing something?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Chris

[Dennie]

Can any one tell me if I was to buy a Subwoofer what I should get to match my LaScala's?

Welcome to the Klipsch forum Moose, we're glad you're here. [<)]

Can you give us more info on room size, needs (2 channel, HT, etc...), budget, etc...?

Congratulations on the La Scalas, I love mine!! []

Dennie

[Quiet_Hollow]

Have you thought about EQing in mono using one speaker at a time?

You do know that the minimum stereo angle as empirically determined by PWK is ~12 to 30 degrees. Right? How far back do you sit from your La Scalas?

I have another question: why do folks post their speakers playing music on Youtube? I assume that they understand that this is limited by recording equipment used, the bandwidth limits placed on Youtube audio tracks (MP3-like) and the reproduction audio chain on the output side of the setup. It seems to me that you have to be there to actually hear what you hear. Right? Am I missing something?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Chris

<---Takes a deep breath.

First off my apologies to Moose. We're totally hijacking his thread. [:$]

As far as EQ'ing, it's gotta be in the digital domain for me, which I've easily accomplished in the past with 2-channel PCM, but not so much with multi-channel bit stream.

Those separation angles are no joke. [Y] (see my other video:

), my home setup was a compromise in practice. [8] Stereo image at the the time was not a priority. I sit ~10 feet from the speakers. If it's any consolation, with the cabs so close there is still some stereo separation, however minute. The closest the tweeters can get is 24 inches, good for about 5 degress ten feet out.

In my experience, the Heritage speakers sound best with the listener positioned so that the speakers appear at the extreme left and right visual flanks. Ideally wide enough, for instance, when you have to turn your head a little to actually see a cabinet.

As far as showing stuff on YouTube, it's the same as listening to anything else that's been recorded I gather. If it sounds decent in real life, it'll likely mike well, so long as the person doesn't mess things up downstream. Audio? Well, their rendering engine slaughters pretty much anything you throw at it unless you actually pay to host your videos. I record quasi-binaural 16 bit DV at 48 kHz, uploaded at 256 kbit/s 2 pass VBR MP3 which is standard fare for flash video. After a thorough scrubbing, YouTube usually introduces all sorts of watermarks and random hash. So if it sounds even half way okay on there, it's because the original was as true to the moment as possible.

With watching videos, it's not about the absolute sound, it's about experiencing something in proxy. I don't draw anything beyond that. Granted, others certainly try. []

[Chris A]

<---Takes a deep breath...First off my apologies to Moose. We're totally hijacking his thread.

Tom,

I appreciated your response to my strange questions. I better understand your reasons now.

I also make compromises on my room and gear that may be difficult to understand by others. For instance, putting absorption material all over the front part of the room - some people don't understand this, but I do.

The reason why I have opened up the discussion on this thread on direct vs. horn-loaded subs is that I do believe that most people will become dissatisfied with direct radiating subs if they are running La Scalas or Belles. This leads to sub use only for reproducing noise-like tracks in HT mode instead of more full-time operation of the sub(s) with 2+ channel music. I don't believe that many people think about this point when buying subs.

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

I hear ya. []

Concerning La Scala and subs, perhaps one way to look at the situation is this:

Below Fc the La Scala behaves like a 4th order band pass anyhow. Bring the subwoofer into the mix at a low enough frequency, and the blend requires a lot less fuss. A large servo sub will suffice easily down there. To cross over higher-up, approaching Fc, will require a sub that can meet the bass bin "on the horn". A tall order by design.

No doubt a horn sub is the sincerest way to go...cash, space, and savvy permitting. OTOH, a well implemented direct radiating design can deliver smiles just the same. Options abound...We all know acquiring the sub is the easy part. []