Mallette Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 I am experiencing a rather strange phenomenon with my SME 3009II that is outside my understanding. She tracks sweet and true, but on certain disks at repeatable points does something very strange. After a brief period of light crackly sounds of mis-tracking, the stylus will begin to oscillate visibly, and usually skips one track toward the inside before stabilizing and sounding fine. I neither see nor hear any signs of record damage at these points, nor any sign of anything that could be causing the arm to bind. I checked anti-skate, and it appears neutral, and increased force by a quarter gram with no change. Most records play through suberbly. Spooky and disconcerting. Since I've found no mention of this in the Prayer Book, perhaps there is a technical explanation? Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Any similarity of the music content at those points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Used that tonearm myself for a couple of years. My guess is that you're encountering LF resonance at these trouble points. The total moving mass of the arm and cartridge combined with the compliance of the stylus work to determine the resonance frequency of the moving system. When you hit a warp or other information at that resonance point, the system becomes unstable. Mistracking is the audible result and groove jumping a pretty sure indicator that this is the problem. Changing tracking force or anti-skate does not impact the resonance frequency of the system, and every arm, cart combination has a resonant mode. The key is to keep it in the 10 Hz range which is usually far enough below any encoded audio information and far enough above warp problems such that performance is not impacted. You may have a bad combo of cartridge and arm or you may just have a couple of records that are a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Sometimes faulty bearings will cause this problem...or something in the bearings. I once had tiny spiders inhabit the bearing in an old tonearm and it would skip backwards at certain points. Very strange. Besides that, Bob is probably right concerning the cartridge/tonearm compatability. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 Sounds like the ticket. I neglected to mention that it also happens occasionally between bands or at the end of an album. I have the bottom off due to a lack of clearance for the arm. I'd have to remove a short piece of ply stapled to it (I assume for rigidity purposes, as it performs no support function) and move it over. You think replacing it might change the resonance any? I doubt that it is related, but I've also noticed that the anti-skate has to be in the last position in order to obtain neutral skate force, even though I am running a gram TF. Again, I see nothing to account for this. I had to use the light black weight as there was no way to obtain balance with the standard silver one. Way too heavy. That surprised me. Any other suggestions short of changing TT, which is not an option at this point. How about the FD200 damping mod? I think it is only about 65.00 and I now wonder if it wasn't designed with exactly this issue in mind. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Roller Blocks anyone? If it is vibration, then from what I understand, roller blocks would solve this problem. There is an extensive post about roller blocks, as we got off topic, here. http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum9/HTML/002252.html ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 Interesting thread on a number of accounts. Will hold on the high price ball bearings until other remedies are commented upon and tried. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Ye olde General Question forum sure is hopping these days. I actually never go there but seems that lately it's been filled with debate. Mike and Allan made some good responses. The measurement brigade is always one step behind when there is a significant advance beyond the testing. As always, the true lemmings are the ones that cant see where the numbers dont always tell the whole story. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Some say just putting a towel under it helped. I actually bought a CD player balancing mechanism when we had a modified Synergy System 6 because we had skipping. Put it on and nothing changed, turned out it was just a defective cd player Good bye 5 disc SONY DVD player, welcome Progessive scanning ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 What cartridge are you using with the 3009? If you are using something like a Shure or Grado that tacks at 1.5 grams, then that is your problem. The 3009 needs something like a Orotofon SPU or Decca London to work properly--otherwise you'll be let down and will be chasing your tail forever. By the way, I've use and SME 3012 for many, many years and I love it. In the late 70's I owned a SOTA with an SME 3009-III and then moved "up" to a Linn LP-12 that was my main deck until about 1988 or so when I came across my current Thorens 124/SME3012/SPU combonation that made EVERY LP I owned sound like MUSIC. I tend to wax poetic about the SPU the same way SET guys drool over old 2A3s and WE 300B's. I know it's "antique" and tracks at three grams and needs a monster like the 3012 to work, but DAMN if it isn't the best sounding cartridge I've ever heard!!! If you haven't lived with an SPU, you don't know what you're missing. I have five of these cartridges and keep two "retipped and ready to go" at all times. I'm surrently looking for a SPU GT mono that has proven to be impossible to find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 In response to an off-list comment, I shall try my Audio Technica at the same places. I much prefer the Grado, but one can always switch just for problem disks. New cartridge is not an option financially at the moment, so I need to find a work around if possible. I have a Stanton 681EEE, and a Stanton 991, though I am not sure I could get a stylus for the 991 anymore. I also have a Shure M91ED, which many wax enthusiastic about, though I've only used it for 78's. Seem like I may have an old Empire around as well...though I am sure a stylus for it would also be hard to come by. While neither BobG nor anyone else has commented on it, I also intend to move the brace on the base/motor cover and put it back on. Those braces must have been put there for a reason, as they do nothing to strengthen or support the cover. You never know... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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