lne937s Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I was looking at some monitor audio subs- any recommendations? What is the verdict on push/pull designs? I am looking for something fast, low, tight and musical, but with my small room, I don't need loud. Thanks in advance- Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Fast and musical Yes Monitor Audio subs deliver,M&K and REL do too. How much money can you spend for a sub? In US $ TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lne937s Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 I would like to keep it below 1K. I would prefer to buy used if I buy. I was thinking about building an isobaric based on some things I read, but wanted everyone's opinion on them. I realize that they reduce volume somewhat, but that is not a problem since I have a small room. I also heard that they play lower and reduce distortion- so I am intrigued. I would need a very simple kit since I don't have many tools or much room to build it. I plan on using a 50Hz crossover point. What about MB quart- I know they have a reputation for quality sound in car audio, but how is their home stuff? Thanks Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 08-01-2002 at 08:23 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Below $1000. No problem a few choices here... Monitor Audio FB210(two 10" woofers,250W amp) M&K MX105 MKII(twin 12",125W amp) Great sounding subs with the qualities you value all for under a grand. If you want to go home made then subwoofer DYI online sites will help.Sill if all the parts are not perfect the isobaric,band pass,push pull design of dreams may give poor performance.If you know what you are doing then by all means the best bang for the buck is with home built subs. The best home made subs use very simple designs,this is why ported sonotubes are often popular.As it does not take a great designer to get good performance and a child can cut two end caps for the sonotube. LOL You need to get the volume and port right with the driver and voila.You ahve yourself a very LOUD and ...err not very refined oil barrel. SVS subs are more then just slaped off shelf drivers in cylinders.SVS uses custom built for the job super duty drivers(SVS SS/Ultra drivers are true super duty material)and the tuning and cabinet size has been fully optomised and tested and refined.You just dont get this level of sub bass quality from a sonotube built by Mr X in his garage.You may get the SPL and more but quality...not so.Unless TV from SVS or Dr.HSU make these subs(expeience here not chance). If you make your "own" sub be sure to follow plans,as most of these designs are proven to work well. SO all this to say each Joe and Moe dream of building the best sub,the fact is they almost all build so so at best performing(hey quality,not blind SPL)subs.I heard a good few subs using even high grade drivers sound like crap,the owners brag about SPL in most cases. Again for under $1000 you can buy a great sub,you have a great choice out there.And you buy what sound s great,not play a guessing game. TheEAR(s) Now theears This message has been edited by TheEAR on 08-01-2002 at 11:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 theEARs, I think you'd be surprised just how good these oil barrel sonotubes slapped together in a garage sound. They do a lot more than just go loud (and how good they look depends entirely on how much time and effort you put into the finish, I've seen pics of some that look better than any commercial sub I've seen). With a small amount of research they are really quite hard to screw up too. Anyways there is a big difference between a push pull and an isobaric sub. Push pull has the drivers sharing the same internal box space in opposite orientation wired out of phase (so although they are in opposite orientation the both push out of the box and both pull into the box at the same time). It's supposed to cancel some distortion but in the real world that reduction in distrotion is pretty meanless as there are other sources of distortion that grossly out weigh what the push pull design fixes. A push pull won't go any lower or louder than the same drivers in a non push pull config. An isobaric traps some air between the drivers. Then one driver is open into the box and the other driver is open out of the box. The only thing this really gains you is a halving of Vas. It will essentially act as one driver (actually not even quite as good as one driver as you loose some efficiency too). So if a small box isn't a major concern, don't do an isobaric. You're just wasting money. If you are game on building the enclosure yourself and you want fast low tight and musical I would highly recommend the Adire Maelstrom in a low Q sealed allignment. It also won't require a lot of power, 250W will be oodles and will need to be in a farily large enclosure. The Adire Tumult will also be out in a month or two. That sub in a low Q sealed allignment with a linkwitz transform chip and over a killowatt of power will be incredible for both output and sound quality. This sub will be able to be a lot smaller than a Maelstrom needs for low Q, but require a lot more power. In larger passive radiator enclosures it will be down right scary. This message has been edited by Dustin B on 08-14-2002 at 11:53 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Dustin, it takes a while to understand the basic principles about subwoofers, "magical words" like "musicality", "fast", "slow", "tight","boomy", "musical" and such are commonly our only referrals to try to understand what is going on. The sad part is that people will use them in a totally indiscriminate way. Anyone is allowed to say: "this sub is tight, fast and musical"!! That is simply nonsense. Yes, no matter how well one might "know" about subs. Knowing the physics behind the "magical" words is the secret to escape their overuse and the most common mistakes regarding the quality of DIY subs. This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-14-2002 at 07:23 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Well I more or less throw those terms out to keep people happy (I don't use them when in DIY forums as they aren't needed there, we trust physics there, as opposed to audiophile hyperbole). I'm more in the camp of Jack Gilvey et al. If the sub uses a good quality woofer, plays low, clean (low THD) and flat (good frequency response), with enough enclosure volume and/or low enough tune to get the Q of the enclosure to a nice level (0.5 to the mid 0.6 range) then the room is many multiples more important to how the sub will sound then the sub. There are very few commercial subs that meet those requirements though. There are many DIY designs that do though. The so called musical subs usually meet the above criteria except they are either gutless or lack last octave performance. The so called HT subs don't have the above but go boom quite well. In my opinion though, if a sub doesn't do both well, it's not a good sub. This message has been edited by Dustin B on 08-14-2002 at 11:58 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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