HPower Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A couple of weeks ago I picked up a nice pair of Welborne DRD45s that are now paired up with my Ground Grid preamp to drive my Cornscalas. The DRDs came with a pair of vintage RCA 45s with unknown hours. After playing these new (to me) amps for a couple of weeks it brought back memories of how good my previous KHorns sounded with my 1st pair of DRD45s (should have not sold those). With everything sounding so good, and me being a compulsive Audiofool, I figured I should try to make things sound even better... I ordered a pair of Emission Lab 45 tubes and am hoping all the good things I have read about them is true. Have any other DRD / 45 amp users tried these tubes? I probably should have posted this thread before dropping that kind of money on 2 tubes, but like I said... Audiofool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A couple of weeks ago I picked up a nice pair of Welborne DRD45s that are now paired up with my Ground Grid preamp to drive my Cornscalas. The DRDs came with a pair of vintage RCA 45s with unknown hours. After playing these new (to me) amps for a couple of weeks it brought back memories of how good my previous KHorns sounded with my 1st pair of DRD45s (should have not sold those). With everything sounding so good, and me being a compulsive Audiofool, I figured I should try to make things sound even better... I ordered a pair of Emission Lab 45 tubes and am hoping all the good things I have read about them is true. Have any other DRD / 45 amp users tried these tubes? I probably should have posted this thread before dropping that kind of money on 2 tubes, but like I said... Audiofool. I have Welborne 45 Star Chief Amplifiers and used to own the DRD45s. I did try a pair of these tubes and could not get them to quit humming in my Amps. No amount of adjusting the hum pot would quiet them, So I sent them back. There are quite a few conversations about them over on Audio Asylum. There are people that love them and others that maintain that they really are not a 45 tube at all. They were the only 45 tube that I could not get to work in my amps. They are HUGE ! - They are over twice the size of a Normal 45 tube. let us know how it goes with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I have a set of the solid plates in my Korneff 45, and they are quite nice. $400. 00 better than a set of RCA?, probably not. Having said that, I have the EML tubes in the amp, not the RCA tubes and don't regret the purchase either. Edited January 13, 2015 by Sprinter1104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I had a pretty similar experience like Cut-Throat. I think mine were the mesh version, though. Personally I gave up on them after a while. Based on that experience I'd stay clear of them. Now as you ahve already ordered them I wish you good luck - perhaps you get a pair without the humming issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I had a pretty similar experience like Cut-Throat. I think mine were the mesh version, though. Personally I gave up on them after a while. Based on that experience I'd stay clear of them. Now as you ahve already ordered them I wish you good luck - perhaps you get a pair without the humming issue. Yes, I also had the Mesh version. I have had the best luck with Old stock RCAs, National Union etc. Currently running RCA Globe UX-245s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPower Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the info guys, I will cross my fingers for a quite, hum free experience. Cut-Throat, if you remember my original DRDs that you advised me on when deciding to buy them back in '08, they ran a pair of vintage Cunningham. Edit... just took a look at a pic of my old Welbornes and it looks like they output tubes were National Unions. Those amps were dead quite with those tubes. The new amps with the RCAs are also dead quite, so if the new EML are noisy, we will see what George's (TubesUSA) customer service is like. Edited January 14, 2015 by HPower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I had a few EML sets - both mesh and solid plates and compared them with Old stock 45's and found that they were a bit hit n' miss noise-wise and sounded better than old stock on some amps but not others. Unfortunately, I didn't have more than 1 pr of EML tubes at a time so.. grain of salt but I tried a couple of prs on the DRD's and in both cases (solid and mesh), there was a audible 'hiss' that wasn't there with most OS 45's (some Cunningham 345 balloons being the exception). While the EML's had more punch and were at least as detailed, I didn't think they bested the OS 45's in the midrange. I also tried the EML's on a Korneff 45SE amp and while greatly diminished, I could still detect a 'hiss' with my ear in the horn that wasn't there with the OS tubes. The best amp I used with the EML's was a Yamamoto A-08s and the sound was quite finessed and silent. That was the only amp that seemed a perfect match with EML's and perhaps it was built with them in mind as I've seen the combo often and have read many excellent reviews. I do recall having trouble with one EML as it died within a few hours but that it was promptly replaced by the seller/distributor. I heard more than a few tales later on about the distributer not being so responsive and accommodating. I still have my original pr of EML's somewhere and should pull them out and give 'em another listen sometime but I'm quite content with the RCA 45 ST-type pr I'm listening to now and if I'm looking for the most 'liquid' and 'spooky' midrange, I'll drop in a pr of Cunningham mesh plate balloons. Another thought is that by many folks' experience and estimates, the lifespan of the EML's are approx.1500-2000 hours and while the lifespan of OS 45's varies greatly depending on the type and manufacturer, I've had the same set of RCA 45 ST's in use (most of the time) over the span of 3 phono cartridges - that's more than 4500 hours and they're still quiet and going strong (although I haven't tested them in years). Have fun! Edited January 15, 2015 by JBryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPower Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hey JBryan, Thanks for sharing all your background experiences! I see by my tracking info that the new EML's landed this morning, so hopefully I will have time tonight to plug them in and see... what's what. For these new tubes I dealt with George at TubesUSA, were you dealing with the same distributer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My experience is similar to JBryan’s in that my EML 45 mesh plate tubes have no discernable hum in my Electra-Fidelity 45 amplifier and my EML 45 globes have no hum at all in my Yamamoto amplifier. I have not used the EMLs in any different types of amplifiers other than these two. My globes were bought from George at TubesUSA and the mesh plates were bought slightly used from an individual moving to higher power amplification. I have used both amplifiers with Klipschorn speakers through the TAD TD-4001 mid-drivers on tractrix horns. However, I don’t remember if either the Electra-Fidelity or the Yamamoto uses an AC or DC heater. From the research that I had done before my purchases, I had found many references to the earlier versions of the EML 45 tube with the bottom getter version from the early 2000s did have serious hum issues and quality issues. However, it seems that the newer top-getter version was much better in this regard; however, depending upon the amplifier, hum may still tend to be higher with mesh plates than the EML solid plates. With the very old 45 tubes you can occasionally find that a filament is reversed; however, the resulting hum could easily be nulled with a hum pot. On the Bottlehead forum you can find a lot of discussion about issues that have developed using the EML 2A3 mesh plate tubes with “direct-coupled” amplifiers. The 2A3 version of the Paramount is a “direct-coupled” circuit where the 300B version of the Paramount circuit is not. The Paramount 2A3 version being direct coupled, essentially places an unusually high voltage on the 2A3 grid during the starting transient. The discussions on that forum indicate a few problems with the TJ/Full Music/Sophia mesh (should probably check about this list) where the tube will sometimes arc internally, and the EMLs can strip the cathodes very quickly. I bring up the issue above because the DRD is a direct-coupled design and I believe that the problem could be potentially greater in a DRD design using solid state rectification with that high voltage surge vs. the DRD design using tube rectification that may potentially have a slower start. I suspect that with the solid state rectification a person should have some type of delay. With my Terraplane amps and Western Electric 300B tubes, the slow start was set up manually with two toggle switches, one toggle switch for the filament, and a second toggle switch for the B+. Here is a 'scale' photo of the EML mesh plates next to a coke can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPower Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well, my "new to me" DRD45s are the tube rectified version so hopefully they will not torch up the new bottles on start up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmobley Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have StarChiefs and DRD 45's and have used my EML solid plates in both. They came with another custom 45 amp I bought before I found my Welbornes. I wouldn't have bought them outright. They do seem to have a slight bit of hum, but I have forgiven that in lieu of more soundstage and holography. For some reason they do seem to improve after a minimum of 25 minutes warming up. I have sets of Union and RCA's, but I still prefer the EML's. Tube dampers seemed to help focus them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPower Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 I got the new EML Mesh plates dropped into the DRDs last night and after reading all the great reads from above, I was very anxious to see what was going to happen when I flipped the power switches. No fireworks show... that was a good start! Initially, there was more noticeable hum than the RCAs but after adjusting the hum pots a bit I was able to nullify most of the hum. The EMLs may have a very slight bit more hum than my original tubes... probably not enough to be a concern. Although, with me really paying attention to noise I did notice a bit of a mechanical hum from my left amp. When I dampen the transformer by pushing my hand on it, almost all of the noise goes away. I may open up the amp and see if it just needs to be tightened up a bit more to the chassis / top plate. Also, while adjusting the hum pot I heard some scratchy noises... seems like the pots could use some Detoxit cleaning. As for sound, I did not have much time for critical listening... don't you just hate when those pesky wives put demands on your hobby time. Muddy Water, "Folk Singer" did sound very good on first listen! Hopefully I will have more spare time over the weekend to let the tubes burn in a bit and do some listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.