shoe11 Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Shortly I will be upgrading my Klipsch RF-3's to RF-7's and I'm a bit concerned as to whether or not my Denon 3802 provides power levels that would be considered optimal for the RF-7's. I'm sure they would be "adequate", but I'm debating if it might be advisable to add a higher quality 2 channel power amp via the Denon's preamp outputs. I should have originally persued the seperates route when choosing amplification, but the Denon was readily available and provides the features, functions I need as far as inputs, surround processing, etc. As I've never preamped a receiever, I assume that all that needs to be done is the interconnecting of the receiver's preamp connections to the power amp. If someone can elaborate on this a bit more I would appreciate it. I'm also interested to hear pros/cons regarding sound quality as it relates to hooking a power amp up to a receiver as opposed to simply running seperates. Any information/comments/suggestions would be appreciated. ------------------ Current System ---------------------- Denon AVR-3802 Sony DVP-300 Sony X33ES CD Turtle Beach Audiotron Klipsch RF-3 II Klipsch RC-3 II Klipsch RS-3 II Klipsch RSW-10 M-Series Biwire Monster Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Mr Shoe, I have a Denon 3801(almost identical to the 3802)and it has more power then you will need in even a large room to reach ear tearing levels. The only place where the Denon and just about any reciever made is lacking is in the slam departament.This is not a problem if you will run a solid subwoofer with the RF-7's. If no sub is used the performance is still satisfactory in most rooms.Keep in mind the Denon 3801(probably 3802 also)pre outs are noisy.I was pissed when I heard the buzz thru my RF-7's.I use a ATI 2505 power for the fronts.With the Sunfire pre/pro I hear no such buzz,its almost dead quiet,even with a big amp like the ATI2505 and speakers as sensitive as the RF-7's. So try an amp first,maybe my 3801 is faulty(I doubt as I heard another 3801 at the store with a multichannel Krell and it also buzzed like a bee.Wont be noticed with most non horn loaded speakers. The 4802 and 5800(now 5803)have no such loud buzz,you can hear a slight buzz this is normal as all amps(tube and solid state)have this buzz. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted August 7, 2002 Author Share Posted August 7, 2002 theears, Honestly what got me thinking about the extra power was a thread in which you were discussing amplification for the RF-7s. While I don't have the arsenal of subs that you possess, my soon to be arriving RSW-12 will fill the "slam" requirement nicely. I thought that the Denon would be more than capable of handling the speakers given that I will have the RSW-12 to handle the bottom end, but once you see how big those suckers are (RF-7) you can't help but have second thoughts. I suspected that using the preamps from the receiver would not be the way to go. Good to hear that someone has already checked that out. I'm sure I'll pursue a poweramp/preamp setup in the future. A friend of mine is looking for a new receiver so I might be able to unload the Denon and switch to separates. Nothing wrong with the Denon of course, it's just that as my speaker configuration/quality gets better, I'll get better performance from them by using a higher quality poweramp/preamp setup. Thanks again for replying. -shoe ------------------ Current System ---------------------- Denon AVR-3802 Sony DVP-300 Sony X33ES CD Turtle Beach Audiotron Klipsch RF-3 II Klipsch RC-3 II Klipsch RS-3 II Klipsch RSW-10 M-Series Biwire Monster Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Hey shoe! I also have a 3801 with Acurus amps, 125X5 & 100X3. Unlike Ear I have no noise problems with my setup. As you've stated, considering the price of the receiver and a separate amp, I believe you would be hard pressed to find good quality separates with comparable features anywhere near the price. Haven't listened to RF-3's except in dealer showroom so I can't tell you how the following reccommendation would actually sound, but I would recommend you buy only a 3 channel amp for your L/C/R. You may have some switching issues if you use separate amps to run two pair of surrounds. The receiver amps will handle surround duties sufficiently. I would recommend you look around for an Acurus 200X3 (second generation w/ oval cutout on faceplate) or other brand amp for your front speakers. Simply run decent quality interconnects from your 3802 preouts to the inputs of the separate amp and wire your speakers to the speaker outputs of the separate amp. Expect better bass and shimmering hi's along with improved clarity. The sound of the Reference speakers and the Acurus amp would be the mystery to me. I believe some amps do sound different with different systems. The Acurus amps and the Synergy Premiere speakers that I use sound great together. Get one or two RF-3's or RC-3's or RB-3's for surround back duty and you're in bidness. So to recap, IMO, amps for all channels unnecessary in your setup. Reasonable cost of a 3 channel amp for front speaks worthwhile soundwise while relieving your 3802 of a little stress. Hope this helps. Keith EDit> Forgot about the upgrade (yawn)! Sub 7 for 3 above. This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 08-07-2002 at 12:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted August 7, 2002 Author Share Posted August 7, 2002 theears, I forgot to ask this in my last reply. The Tweeter store through which I've purchased my speakers has the B&K power amplifier line. They also can get Krell, but I'm quite certain those are beyond my budget. Have you tried any of the B&K components? I'm considering the B&K Reference 2220 from them, but I was wondering if you have suggestions on which other companies make quality poweramp/preamps that are fairly priced? Let's define fairly priced as between 3-5k for a poweramp/preamp combo. -shoe ------------------ Current System ---------------------- Denon AVR-3802 Sony DVP-300 Sony X33ES CD Turtle Beach Audiotron Klipsch RF-3 II Klipsch RC-3 II Klipsch RS-3 II Klipsch RSW-10 M-Series Biwire Monster Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Shoe- The 3802 will have plenty of power to drive the RF-7s to ear bleeding levels, so no real problem there. Granted, the 3801 (this is the version I have) is not the quietest pre/pro as compared to a $2000 - $4000 pre/pro, but it will do an acceptable job. Due to most of us working under limited budgets, I like the idea of stepwise upgrades. I feel that the 3801/3802 is an excellent first reciever and will work well as a pre/pro if needed. Depending on your priorties, Music or HT, will influence your selection of amps. But, the addition of a 2-channel amp as a first step seems to be a good choice. Then, the addition of a 5 channel amp for a full 7.1 HT system and a pre/pro can be made at a later date, when $$$$$ allows. I have been looking at adding a 2-channel amp to my system, some of the amps i have looked into are Aragon 8008MKII Odyssey Stratos Rotel RB-1090 Bryston 3B or 4B They are in the $2000-$3000 range, but these companies offer low priced options for 2 channel amps -Dave ------------------ Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 shoe, give the b&k a demo w/ your klipsch. i use a ref 30 & 7270 power amp w/ mine & am quite pleased w/ the audio. great prices for what you get too. you should only need more power if you run speakers full range (large setting), or do your music listening w/ no sub. if you cut the speakers at 80hz (small, or lowest setting on the 3802) most of that added amp power is not needed. but not saying its best to set them large w/ a sub. maybe think about how your going to set up & use your system before shelling out for a power amp. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted August 7, 2002 Author Share Posted August 7, 2002 I'm glad to hear that many of you have the same model and agree that the 3801/3802 will handle the RF-7's. I went out a few months back with the express purpose of building an audiophile system at a reasonable price. For what I budgeted, I think I've done that. Of course now that I'm at one level of performance, I'm thinking about the next. I had been running an older model Denon-AV2500 for about 10 years and was very happy with it so I was rather predisposed to buying the 3802. It's definitely a great receiver. After reviewing many posts here and other reviews regarding poweramp/preamp combos and their sound quality, I've guess I've just been wondering if I may not have given my choice sufficient thought. I'm 80% music, 20% movies as far as my listening habits are concerned (notwithstanding The Simpsons 2nd season DVD set I'm watching now). Given my usage habits I'm definitely more interested in my 2 channel stereo performance than HT. My speakers are in the "standard" locations with the RSW10 (soon to be RSW12) on the front wall. I have the RF-3's set to small and cut the sub crossover at 80hz so the sub is handling the "slam" for me. At this point the next upgrade will be the RF-7's around the holidays, and then most likely I'll follow DrPyro and Keith's idea of integrating in a 2 or 3 channel power amp into the preamps of the Denon, followed by a full conversion to seperates. Boa, thanks for the comment on the B&K. I'll be sure to give them a listen. Thanks everyone for your comments. -shoe ------------------ Current System ---------------------- Denon AVR-3802 Sony DVP-300 Sony X33ES CD Turtle Beach Audiotron Klipsch RF-3 II Klipsch RC-3 II Klipsch RS-3 II Klipsch RSW-12 M-Series Biwire Monster Cable This message has been edited by shoe11 on 08-07-2002 at 06:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 ear, It sounds like the buzzing you were experiencing might have been a ground loop. I had this with my old Acurus amp and with a preamp I owned. Get a cheater plug and use it on your amp and pre and see if the buzz goes away. Then take it off the pre and see what happens and so forth. A cheater plug removes the ground on a three prong plug. It converts a three prong plug to a two prong plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshep Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 I have a Denon 3802 with a Denon POA-2800 amplifier. The speakers are RF-3 II. No noise here. ------------------ Denon AVR-3802 Denon POA-2800 Klipsch RF-3 II Cerwin Vega LS-15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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