Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Hello, I'm new to the forum. Today I purchased 2 r-112sw that replaced 2 r-10sw. When I hooked them up I set the frequency and gain to perform a calibration from my Yamaha rx-v679 I was not impressed with the sound of these subs, my old 10s hit harder and with these 12s the bass is there but does not sound as good as you would think moving up to the reference premier line and also a combined 600 watts more of power. Am I doing something wrong? My system consists of 2 r-28f r25c 4-r15ms for rears and surrounds any help would be awesome. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Welcome to the forums! I have never heard either of the subs, but the RMS of the subs is 150 and 300 watts respectively. The 12" can dig to 24Hz compared to the 10" 32Hz. The lower the frequency, the more power used. I think your expectations of a harder hitting sub may have been too high. If you were wanting a sub that has better LFE for movies like Transformers and Tron, then the 112SW will be much better. For playing music and such, there may be little or no difference. What are you using the system for mostly, music? Also, have you ever done a sub crawl or anything other than a simple calibration to make sure you are getting the most you can out of your subs for your room? With this, we can help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Thank you. I mostly watch movies...Or ever since I purchased my Klipsch gear "listen" I did just now turn my gain up on the amps to 3/4 and threw on some music and they did really come alive and actually move the sub. I don't know if this will be a problem durring calibration it suggests turning the volume/gain half way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 When you set the gain at half (which is just a starting point for beginners which most of us aren't) what does your receiver set the trim at in the menu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 -10 db.. Sounds like crap. To be honest my whole system sounds like crap now. I calibrated it last week and the fronts and center were +7db and surrounds and rears were +9db the movies literally blew your brains apart.. No distortion.. Now I re calibrated it with the new subs everything is pretty much flat and the rears and surrounds are at +1-3 db. I have manually set everything back to normal and brought the sub back to zero. Subs sounds great but everything else sloppy. I used to play my movies at -28 for great experience and have the balls drop out, now I'm like 20 and no comparison in sound quality just sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Try this procedure for set up two subs: Type in browser Guide to Bass Management Part I by Big Daddy/Blu-ray forum. I tried pasting the site but it does not appear in the finished post. Do you have an spl meter? This will help with setup and determining best location for subs. Do the subwoofer crawl using the meter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV3oLLMgS-M Edited February 28, 2016 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Like mentioned in my previous comment, subs sounds amazing.....wife and kids saying too loud..wtf? What baffles me is why the other 7 speakers now sound distorted and unejoyable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Basically it is not setup correct. It may be a phase problem, speakers set to large, timing issues between speakers. Start over! Don't not make manual agdustments because it is altering the DSP. Save that for later. How larege is the room? Read Bul-ray forum for setting up subs and integrating with rest of system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiey60 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 -10 db.. Sounds like crap. To be honest my whole system sounds like crap now. I calibrated it last week and the fronts and center were +7db and surrounds and rears were +9db the movies literally blew your brains apart.. No distortion.. Now I re calibrated it with the new subs everything is pretty much flat and the rears and surrounds are at +1-3 db. I have manually set everything back to normal and brought the sub back to zero. Subs sounds great but everything else sloppy. I used to play my movies at -28 for great experience and have the balls drop out, now I'm like 20 and no comparison in sound quality just sloppy. Numbers that far into positive does not sound right for your speakers. All my speakers are around -7 to -9 and I adjusted my subs to -7 up from -10. At -28 the volume is just starting, -15 is very loud and anything over -10 is uncomfortable. Instead of your trims being high you should be turning your relative volume up. I believe you have a speaker setup and or calibration issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 It's probably a good thing you stopped into the forum. If the system sounds like crap, then you have it set up wrong. It should be better than theater with your setup. Could you share some pictures and answer the question Derrick asked about the room size? This shouldn't be too hard to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 I have attached photos of my install, my surround photos for some reason are upside down I tried editing them? My layout is 14x18x8 I calibrated my stereo this morning at gain set to 1/2 and these are the results I got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Are your speaker set to Large or Small? That is not an overly large room with two subs, they should be handling the bass duty. Running the speakers as small, converts the system to a three way system. Those subs are considered corner loading and can cloudy some of the bass and midrange. Sometimes re-running the autocalibration with a slight mic re-position can make a huge difference is getting things to mesh. Trims may remain the same from doing this but, things in the time domain will change and are not readily seen when looking at the various GUI screen. DPS is doing hundreds if not thousand of things in the digital domain which is why I said for now don't alter the setting. I looked at the GUI screen and it looks like speakers are set to Large. This can cause some serious phase issues. I run the big RF 7's as small satellites even though the speakers are near 100 lbs each. Edited February 28, 2016 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 They are all set to large except the center speaker, I don't understand why the sudden change in all of my speakers from going to 10s to 12s before yesterday it was all set up and would blow someone's head off but after the added subs it's sounds sloppy. After I tuned it I did change the sub gains to 3/4 on both they sound much deeper, also my subs are set at different phase from another for some reason they sound equal that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Are your speaker set to Large or Small? That is not an overly large room with two subs, they should be handling the bass duty. Running the speakers as small, converts the system to a three way system. Those subs are considered corner loading and can cloudy some of the bass and midrange. Sometimes re-running the autocalibration with a slight mic re-position can make a huge difference is getting things to mesh. Trims may remain the same from doing this but, things in the time domain will change and are not readily seen when looking at the various GUI screen. DPS is doing hundreds if not thousand of things in the digital domain which is why I said for now don't alter the setting. I looked at the GUI screen and it looks like speakers are set to Large. This can cause some serious phase issues. I run the big RF 7's as small satellites even though the speakers are near 100 lbs each. So would I go in and manually change all of these to small? The receiver converts them durring the testing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) A simple thing to try would be to put the subs in the corners and the mains closer to the fireplace. The rack should be right next to the fireplace. I don't like the mains right in the corners like that. Lots of reflections and cancellation. The subs in the corners will make a huge sub-bass improvement due to the 3B boundary gain. edit: I did a quick search, and turned up a thread that talks about mud.... http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?28534-Main-Speakers-in-room-corners Edited February 28, 2016 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) I tried that yesterday and I wasn't impressed with the sound quality of the subs because they were firing right into the side of my couches I honestly think this is a calibration issue not a speaker placement problem there probably is more ideal arrangements but 2 days ago this system was very immersive and real the only difference was the upgraded subs and calibration but now it's just not there anymore very depressing Edited February 28, 2016 by Josh810 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 If the speakers are set to small, then you won't risk cancellation of the subs and the mains. Also, if you change the phase of the subs slightly it will influence that cancellation. In other words, don't have either of the subs at 0 deg phase. Also don't have the phase equal on both subs. Can I assume there is no other spots in the room for the subs? Read Derrick's post. He is right about sub placement and cancellation between the subs and mains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) The left sub is set to 180 and the right at 0 no there is no room for the subs elsewhere I just changed all of the speakers to small there is a noticeable loss of loudness Also to note my front speakers are on a 1 ft stand I did this to raise the towers up enough so the woofers weren't being blocked off by the couch Edited February 28, 2016 by Josh810 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiey60 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 How are you setting up the mic for calibration? Was there any difference in how you had the mic placed on your original calibration and your new calibration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh810 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Not at all I just set right in the middle of the couch with the mic at ear level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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