001 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Glad it worked out for you. Many people say caps need some break in time, some say not. I "think" I noticed the sound seemed to smooth out after a few hours of medium volume. Let us know your impression on how they sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Will do, just got the first speaker all back together. I'm done for the night and ready for an adult bev. Hope to tackle the other speaker tomorrow. Will post pics and impressions after I get both done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Forgot to mention that I used Liquid Nails Perfect Glue Fuze It (PG-00) for the grill peg inserts. It's a clear, flexible glue that comes in a small tube. The package said it was good for wood and rubber, so I figured it would be a good choice. I used a small craft foam applicator to put a layer in the holes in the motorboard as well as a layer on the insert, making sure that I had a thin layer on the lip of the insert too. After inserting the inserts into the holes, I applied pressure to the inserts every few minutes until the glue set up in about 30 minutes. I believe that gluing the inserts did help seal the cabinet a bit, as the PR push test seems to last a bit longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldred Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 38 minutes ago, adam2434 said: Forgot to mention that I used Liquid Nails Perfect Glue Fuze It (PG-00) for the grill peg inserts. It's a clear, flexible glue that comes in a small tube. The package said it was good for wood and rubber, so I figured it would be a good choice. I used a small craft foam applicator to put a layer in the holes in the motorboard as well as a layer on the insert, making sure that I had a thin layer on the lip of the insert too. After inserting the inserts into the holes, I applied pressure to the inserts every few minutes until the glue set up in about 30 minutes. I believe that gluing the inserts did help seal the cabinet a bit, as the PR push test seems to last a bit longer. So ....when do we get to see your handy work, George, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, oldred said: So ....when do we get to see your handy work, George, Not much to see regarding the grill peg inserts , but here's a before and after shot of the 1st crossover. Plan to get started on the 2nd one in a bit. I used klipschfancf4's J-hook reco for the to make the axial NPE work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Site won't let me upload the after shot...need to make it smaller I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 after... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldred Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Very nice work. Don't forget we would love to see the finished Forte's Try and resize....Please Thanks for sharing, George, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Looks good! The j-hook trick to make lead extensions works great, I stood the electrolytic cap up on end like the original was, but that was on forte 2's which have a bigger board & different arrangement I think. Did the speakers have any sound problems with the original caps, or did you just want to change them due to age? If they were sounding ok, the sound improvement migh not be as dramatic as mine were, it was like there was a blanket covering the mids & tweets on the one speaker, after the caps upgrade they sounded like brand new speakers. But at least you know yours are good for another 25+ years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 22 hours ago, klipschfancf4 said: Looks good! The j-hook trick to make lead extensions works great, I stood the electrolytic cap up on end like the original was, but that was on forte 2's which have a bigger board & different arrangement I think. Did the speakers have any sound problems with the original caps, or did you just want to change them due to age? If they were sounding ok, the sound improvement migh not be as dramatic as mine were, it was like there was a blanket covering the mids & tweets on the one speaker, after the caps upgrade they sounded like brand new speakers. But at least you know yours are good for another 25+ years! My original intention was to only replace the 30 year old NPE’s, figuring they were in need. I’ve only owned the Forte’s for 1 week and had never heard a pair before buying them. So, I can’t say that I was trying to fix a problem with the sound – they sounded very good prior to the cap replacements, but I figured the NPE’s were tired or soon to be. You and others convinced me to go ahead with replacing the film caps too. I finished the 2nd crossover yesterday and played them for a few hours, but only really listened to them about an hour while working out. I’ll play them more today. My initial impression is that the new caps make the speakers sound significantly cleaner, more open, and more detailed across all frequencies, but especially in the high frequencies. So far I’m pretty impressed with the sound, and I may prefer them to the JBL LS80’s I’ve been using in this location for a month or so. That’s pretty surprising to me because the JBL’s are a newer design (2008) with a $3000/pr original price. I’ll report back when I get a chance to do more listening. Getting the terminal cups back into the speakers was a major pain. The tolerances to get them back in are very tight. On the 2nd crossover, the height of a couple of my solder joints on the top of the crossover would not allow the terminal cup to go back in. The solder joints on the top of the board need to be nearly flush to get the terminal cup in. I had to remove my solder, clip the leads to nearly flush, then resolder 2 joints to get the terminal cup in. Getting the terminal cups back in and getting the leads off the binding posts were the most difficult parts of this job. The rest of the job was pretty straight-forward, although time-consuming for a relative novice like myself. For both speakers, I worked on the crossovers with the wires attached to the drivers. The 1st speaker was upright. I placed the second speaker front-down, which made the work easier, as I could simply rest the crossover on the back of the speaker. I’m kicking myself a bit for not thinking of replacing the resistors with Mills while I had the crossovers out. But I am definitely not going back in for that. I attached a couple pics of the full speakers. Not much to see, given that they are in the unfinished portion of our basement. These Forte’s will probably go to one of my kids someday when they have a place of their own. I need to try to cover some scratches and nicks in the black finish. A black Minwax stain pen did not work, so I’m looking for other options. In additional to soliciting input, my intention for this thread was to provide some detailed insight to others considering refreshing their Forte’s. Thanks to all that provided input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldred Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 They look nice. I have to admit ....being up in the air on riser like that makes them look small. Nice work. George, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Thanks! I built the risers when I got the JBL LS80 floorstanders a couple months ago. The height of the risers put the JBL tweeters at ear level when I'm standing, which is how I listen in this room...working out, putzing around with electronics and speakers on the workbench, etc. Prior to the JBL's, I had a shelf on that wall and used bookshelf speakers - tried several brands/models and finally realized that a bookshelf speaker would just not cut it in this large open space at higher SPL's. To get the Forte tweeters to ear level, I would need to add about 8" to the risers. However, when I bend down a bit to get my ears at tweeter level, I do not notice a significant change in sound, so adding 8" to the risers is not a big priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 So you removed the wires from the binding posts? I suppose that way works but if you do it again, its so much easier to pull the passive & unhook the wires from the drivers terminals, then you pull out the entire crossover, binding posts & all. Avoids the desolder & resolder of the wires to the binding posts that you mentioned was difficult. From the research I did, I found many say the resistors dont really have an effect on the sound like the caps do & is probably not needed, but the mills resistors are of better quality than the stock cast ones. Probably not worth the effort on these though. I'm pretty sure they make a black stain that will help the scratches, but if they are too deep they may need to be sanded out & restained, or many people just use paint to recover these black speakers. They look pretty good in the pics. Also, depending on your space limitations, I suggest getting these off those high stands, it really hurts the bass output & the whole "ear level" thiing is way over rated IMO... maybe tilt them back a bit to help project the sound upwards if you are standing a lot in the room. But if you can, place them on the floor & into the corners of the room as much as possible, maybe a foot or so from the back wall & no more than 2-3 feet from the side walls & toed in a bit, it will really increase the bass output which the fortes are known for. Funny how they hold their own & maybe even exceed your $3000 jbl's. fortes are great speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 42 minutes ago, klipschfancf4 said: So you removed the wires from the binding posts? I suppose that way works but if you do it again, its so much easier to pull the passive & unhook the wires from the drivers terminals, then you pull out the entire crossover, binding posts & all. Avoids the desolder & resolder of the wires to the binding posts that you mentioned was difficult. Also, depending on your space limitations, I suggest getting these off those high stands, it really hurts the bass output & the whole "ear level" thiing is way over rated IMO... maybe tilt them back a bit to help project the sound upwards if you are standing a lot in the room. But if you can, place them on the floor & into the corners of the room as much as possible, maybe a foot or so from the back wall & no more than 2-3 feet from the side walls & toed in a bit, it will really increase the bass output which the fortes are known for. Funny how they hold their own & maybe even exceed your $3000 jbl's. fortes are great speakers! The binding posts are circled in red. The lead wires have to be desoldered from the binding posts to get the board off of the terminal cups to gain access to the solder side of the board. I don't see how one could gain access to the solder side of the board without doing this. Did I miss something big? Yeah, I know that having them off the floor reduces the bass, but that's where they have to fit for now. If I ever rearrange the unfinished part of the basement, I might be able to find a spot for them on the floor. Perhaps moving them closer than 1' to the back wall could help with the bass on the stands? I have them at about 9" now, and the bass sounds pretty good, but yeah, I'm sure it could be better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Ok sorry, sounds like that works too. Maybe fortes are different than the forte 2's I've worked on, but what I did was remove the screws holding the circuit board & autoformer to the plastic "cup" & was able to just flip it over & gain access to the solder side rear of the board, didn't have to desolder anything. Speaker placement always depends on room limitations & lay out, I'm sure they are fine as is if they sound good to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Yeah, the Forte I has the binding posts coming through the board, so they have to be desoldered before you can separate the board and cup. Pics of Forte II crossovers I've seen do not have the binding posts coming through the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 29 minutes ago, adam2434 said: Yeah, the Forte I has the binding posts coming through the board, so they have to be desoldered before you can separate the board and cup. Pics of Forte II crossovers I've seen do not have the binding posts coming through the board. gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 Thought I would provide an update on fixing scratches and nicks in the black finish. A black stain stick did not work. Next, I used Minwax Polyshades Black Satin and wiped on 3 light coats on all finished wood surfaces, hitting the surface with 0000 steel wool before recoating. These coats covered the scratches and nicks nicely, but left an uneven sheen. By the way, the Minwax Polyshades Black Satin dries almost like black paint. Next, I brushed on a coat, thinking I would get a more even final sheen. Well, the sheen is more uniform, but still not even when I shine a light directly on the wood. I believe my next step will be another light sanding followed by a couple coats of Minwax Wipe-on Poly in satin. I’m hoping that a couple wipe-on coats will even out the sheen. We’ll see… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 the polyshade has poly mixed in & can dry uneven on porous surfaces. the satin poly is very easy to work with & should even out the sheen... i had good results with a fine brush or a foam brush. put it on in 2 thin coats & lightly sand the 1st coat asfter it cures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Applied 3 coats of wipe-on poly and plan to do a 4th this evening. After I get the cabinet finishing done, I believe a 180 deg woofer rotation will be my last task. I don’t recall whether the woofer terminals are on the bottom or sides of the woofer, relative to its current mounting orientation (which I believe to be the factory orientation). Is there enough play in the speaker wire to allow a 180 deg woofer rotation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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