Surround upgrade advice

[Eric2706]

Hello question for anyone who can answer. 

 

I'm upgrading from an all in one system to true (hopefully ) surround sound system.  I could use some advice on a few things as I'm learning as I go. 

 

Background in usage play games, and watch sports and movies. No music unless it's from one of those things. 

 

1- I plan on buying a denon AVR-X4300H receiver. Judging by the items I list will this be a good match together that will give me great sound? 

 

2- I want to purchase the RP-280F for my 2 front speakers 

 

3 - As for my center channel. I'm trying to decide if I want to get the Rp-440C or the RP-450C. From what I can gather it seems the specs are pretty even besides a minor difference in the frequency range. But can anyone tell me besides the size of the woofer and cabinet size is there a big difference is sound between the two?? And which would be recommended 

 

4- Next I'm trying to decide for my back/surround speakers which would be best for sound. The RP-160M or the RP-250S? I plan to have them at ear level behind a couch and if I choose the 250S mount them on a wall. If it's the 160M I'll mount them on a stand. 

 

Any advice I get is much appreciated and welcome. Not much of a audiophile but really want to upgrade what I have now to great movie sound.  

 

Also I am putting this in my living room as I do not have a theater room. 

 

Again thanks to anyone who responds.  I had no idea the rabbit hole I was going down when I started this 

[The History Kid]

If you're going to have them be rear surrounds that are behind you, you should use direct firing speakers such as the RP-160M or RP-280F.  If you're going to be using them as side surrounds that are to your side, it'd be wiser to use omnipole speakers like the RP-250S.

[Eric2706]

9 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

If you're going to have them be rear surrounds that are behind you, you should use direct firing speakers such as the RP-160M or RP-280F.  If you're going to be using them as side surrounds that are to your side, it'd be wiser to use omnipole speakers like the RP-250S.

So surround speakers are for the sides? And the speakers directly behind the listening area should be direct sound? That makes more sense. Thanks for replying 

 

Any thoughts on the AVR and speakers together?  I know it's mostly personal opinion but again just starting to research 

 

 

[The History Kid]

I'm not a fan of Denon sound, but my experience with them is limited.  Many here really like those units and enjoy how they sound - so I'd go for it.  It's a respectable AVR for sure.

[Youthman]

1 hour ago, Eric2706 said:

Any advice I get is much appreciated and welcome. Not much of a audiophile but really want to upgrade what I have now to great movie sound.  

Welcome to the forum.  We will gladly help you spend your money.

 

As you can see from the screenshot below, I have owned just about every Klipsch Reference speaker and many Heritage speakers but have not had the opportunity to hear the new Reference Premiere series so I cannot offer any advice there. 

 

 

What I can tell you is that if you are going from a home theater in a box type system to a Klipsch Reference system, you are in for a treat.

 

1 hour ago, Eric2706 said:

 I had no idea the rabbit hole I was going down when I started this 

You still probably don't have a good grasp on how deep the hole is.

 

This is where I first stepped near the rabbit hole...

 

I purchased a pair of Klipsch CF2's with KV1 center and a Velodyne F1500 sub for $200 (I was only interested in the sub).  Once I heard the CF-2's, I immediately listed my Polk system.

 

 

 

 

And here I am a "few" pair of Klipsch speakers later....yes...you really have no idea how sick this illness is.  But it sure is fun!

 

 

 

[Eric2706]

2 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

I'm not a fan of Denon sound, but my experience with them is limited.  Many here really like those units and enjoy how they sound - so I'd go for it.  It's a respectable AVR for sure.

Thanks hopefully I get more replies but u am leaning towards that. I'm very limited to what I can physically listen to in my area so I'm having to use reviews and popular opinion to help me out with what I'm looking to get. 

 

I also plan on getting dual subwoofers as well. Still not sure if I want the 10 or 12 inch woofers. 

[Youthman]

5 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

So surround speakers are for the sides?

Yes, your "surrounds" go on the side for 5.1 systems, then if you have a 7.1, you are adding "surround back" speakers which have less information than the side surrounds.

 

This diagram should help

 

[Eric2706]

2 minutes ago, Youthman said:

Welcome to the forum.  We will gladly help you spend your money.

 

As you can see from the screenshot below, I have owned just about every Klipsch Reference speaker and many Heritage speakers but have not had the opportunity to hear the new Reference Premiere series so I cannot offer any advice there. 

 

 

What I can tell you is that if you are going from a home theater in a box type system to a Klipsch Reference system, you are in for a treat.

 

You still probably don't have a good grasp on how deep the hole is.

 

This is where I first stepped near the rabbit hole...

 

I purchased a pair of Klipsch CF2's with KV1 center and a Velodyne F1500 sub for $200 (I was only interested in the sub).  Once I heard the CF-2's, I immediately listed my Polk system.

 

 

 

 

And here I am a "few" pair of Klipsch speakers later....yes...you really have no idea how sick this illness is.  But it sure is fun!

 

 

 

I'll have to hope my girl doesn't read that post lol. Thanks for the info.  Yes my jvc box was great 10 years ago. But upgraded the tv to 75" and I feel the jvc makes the tv look cheaper than it was. 

[Youthman]

1 minute ago, Eric2706 said:

I also plan on getting dual subwoofers as well. Still not sure if I want the 10 or 12 inch woofers. 

My vote, go big.  12" or even 15".  The larger the woofer, the more air they move, the more air they move, the more IMPACT you will have during movies.

 

I started out with a Velodyne CT100 (10" with 100 watt amp), moved to a Velodyne F1500 (15" with 150 watt amp).  The 15" was a HUGE upgrade over the 10".  Then I upgraded to a Velodyne HGS15 (15" with 1250 watt RMS / 3000 watt peak) amp, then Dual HGS15's, then a single Klipsch RSW15.  The single RSW15 has as much output as BOTH Velodyne HGS15's so I sold them, and ended up purchasing 3 more RSW15's.

[Youthman]

2 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

But upgraded the tv to 75" and I feel the jvc makes the tv look cheaper than it was. 

Pretty soon, you will have massive sound to match the massive TV.

 

2 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

I'll have to hope my girl doesn't read that post lol.

Sadly, there are others that have it worse than I do.  You realize this isn't really an audio forum, it's therapy. 

[Eric2706]

10 minutes ago, Youthman said:

Yes, your "surrounds" go on the side for 5.1 systems, then if you have a 7.1, you are adding "surround back" speakers which have less information than the side surrounds.

 

This diagram should help

 

Just wathe your video. How do you keep family and neighbors away? Awesome set up. I would add some rope lights on the floors. I think that would look great 

[Eric2706]

10 minutes ago, Youthman said:

My vote, go big.  12" or even 15".  The larger the woofer, the more air they move, the more air they move, the more IMPACT you will have during movies.

 

I started out with a Velodyne CT100 (10" with 100 watt amp), moved to a Velodyne F1500 (15" with 150 watt amp).  The 15" was a HUGE upgrade over the 10".  Then I upgraded to a Velodyne HGS15 (15" with 1250 watt RMS / 3000 watt peak) amp, then Dual HGS15's, then a single Klipsch RSW15.  The single RSW15 has as much output as BOTH Velodyne HGS15's so I sold them, and ended up purchasing 3 more RSW15's.

So when I get my dual subs I'll have to buy 2 amps as well? I swore they had amps inside them already? And the 15's will probably be too big. I'm putting this in my living room. No kids or pets so not worried about tripping of damage. But I don't want to clog up the space either. 

[The History Kid]

When discussing subs, it's normal to discuss the plate amp built within them.  That's what Michael is doing.  Those are the amps he is referring to.

[Youthman]

2 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

How do you keep family and neighbors away?

Keep them away?  I charge them admission.  LOL

 

2 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

I would add some rope lights on the floors. I think that would look great 

Not sure I've ever seen rope lighting on the floor (other than step lighting in a movie theater).  Then again, I've only seen 3 dedicated home theaters in person.  The only lighting I might add in the future is when we build the riser, we added romex and installed a step light on each step....what we failed to realize was that we bought 12 volt lights.  KAPOOF!    Haven't bothered to try and find 110 volt step lights.

[Youthman]

1 minute ago, Eric2706 said:

So when I get my dual subs I'll have to buy 2 amps as well?

Most subs are "Active" meaning they have an amp plate (usually on the back). 

 

2 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

And the 15's will probably be too big. I'm putting this in my living room.

And?  Just kidding, I know most significant others do not care for big, bulky subs.  I was able to barely get away with a 15" because it barely fit underneath our end table in the living room.

[Youthman]

2 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

When discussing subs, it's normal to discuss the plate amp built within them.  That's what Michael is doing.  Those are the amps he is referring to.

Correct, all of my subs were typical home theater subs with a plate amp built into the sub.  I was just sharing the specs of the plate amps.

 

Here is one of my RSW-15's showing the plate amp.

 

 

 

The RSW-15 has an "Active" sub in the rear (which is powered by the amp plate) and a 15" "Passive" driver in the front (which moves as the active sub moves the air inside the sub.

[Youthman]

8 minutes ago, Eric2706 said:

And the 15's will probably be too big. I'm putting this in my living room.

How big is your living room?  I would go as big as you can so in your case, dual 12" would be great.  IMO, 10's just don't have the same tactile feel as larger subs do. 

 

FWIW, if you ever come across an RSW-12, it might be plenty of output for your room.  Dual subs have other benefits though besides more bass.....they typically help smooth out the bass response throughout the room so that you don't have as many dead spots.

[RoboKlipsch]

I love my Denon, and I may be a bigger gamer than most in this forum 

I love movies, shows, and music comes last but it's still big for me.

 

The advice above is all spot on, of course.   For side surrounds you want bi-polar speakers and for back surrounds the best option is direct fire (monopole).

In every case though, you could mix and match those surrounds however you want and be very happy.  I think the bipolar surrounds are incredible, personally.

 

Subs are an interesting topic and it depends largely on the room imo.  Size and shape of the living room is key, if you share that we can give better advice on sub support.

The most general thing I would offer is more subs is better than BIG subs, but that doesn't mean more BIG subs is bad

If you really like movies, you want more BIG subs, at least 2 imo and possibly 4.  This may sound like too much or crazy but trust me, it's not.  The biggest benefit is from 1 to 2.

 

As far as your center, you have a robust system and are looking at the RP250S, which has 5" woofers.  You should get the 450C and match the woofer between those, it's always nice to have an exact match.  But more to the point the 450C has larger woofers, giving you more headroom at the critical center position.  

 

As YMan says, you're in for a treat.  You're going to love the new setup, however you design it. 

[Eric2706]

On 5/4/2017 at 1:40 PM, Youthman said:

My vote, go big.  12" or even 15".  The larger the woofer, the more air they move, the more air they move, the more IMPACT you will have during movies.

 

I started out with a Velodyne CT100 (10" with 100 watt amp), moved to a Velodyne F1500 (15" with 150 watt amp).  The 15" was a HUGE upgrade over the 10".  Then I upgraded to a Velodyne HGS15 (15" with 1250 watt RMS / 3000 watt peak) amp, then Dual HGS15's, then a single Klipsch RSW15.  The single RSW15 has as much output as BOTH Velodyne HGS15's so I sold them, and ended up purchasing 3 more RSW15's.

So when I get my dual subs I'll have to buy 2 amps as well? I swore they had amps inside them already? And the 15's will probably be too big. I'm putting this in my living room. No kids or pets so not worried about tripping of damage. But I don't want to clog up the space either. 

[Eric2706]

On 5/4/2017 at 1:40 PM, Youthman said:

My vote, go big.  12" or even 15".  The larger the woofer, the more air they move, the more air they move, the more IMPACT you will have during movies.

 

I started out with a Velodyne CT100 (10" with 100 watt amp), moved to a Velodyne F1500 (15" with 150 watt amp).  The 15" was a HUGE upgrade over the 10".  Then I upgraded to a Velodyne HGS15 (15" with 1250 watt RMS / 3000 watt peak) amp, then Dual HGS15's, then a single Klipsch RSW15.  The single RSW15 has as much output as BOTH Velodyne HGS15's so I sold them, and ended up purchasing 3 more RSW15's.

So when I get my dual subs I'll have to buy 2 amps as well? I swore they had amps inside them already? And the 15's will probably be too big. I'm putting this in my living room. No kids or pets so not worried about tripping of damage. But I don't want to clog up the space either.