Klipsch warranty (Online no?)

[boa12]

md makes a good point on those legals. though i checked w/ the KS AG office & they have no law to in effect force U.S. manufacturers to honor warranties on new products sold.

klipsch stated concern is whether in certain cases these products are actually new. but legally that's between you & the dealer, not klipsch. however, it is a valid point that klipsch could suffer adverse economic consequences of unauthorized dealer sales. a point klipsch could & probably would legally make even in states w/ the consumer protection laws md mentioned.

so one as a consumer has to place some value on the warranty & other services that the local retail dealer sale has to offer.

f.e., is the $600 (assuming shipping & sales tax wash) saved on the klf-30 from brandnameX.com worth the warranty hassles & lack of other services? to some maybe.

& the authorized dealers are or should be made aware that we have that option. fortunately, my local dealers will work w/ me on price. but take that as ammunition to the authorized dealer that won't budge from MSRP. w/ a $600 (earning interest) budget we could pay for our own repair or do it ourselves.

in the meantime maybe we should be lobbying the gov for more support instead of klipsch

(internet law also being in it's infancy).

Boa "not a lawyer nor play one on this BB" H.

[boa12]

md, oh me too on klipsch. they're great - just sent me out a speaker foot replacement no charge. it's just that they have to also support their dealers & obviously, as we have to negociate a price w/ them there will be conflicts.

but what happens in CA when u buy from an "unauthorized" klipsch dealer & need warranty

work? anyone gone this route? i suspect the e-tailer will tell u that u have to deal with klipsch for the warranty, while klipsch will tell you they won't do it. so then you take klipsch to court? think we have a theory vs. reality thing here

maybe some e-tailers will just send u a new one - if they're still around that is. after

all, didn't they buy from an authorized dealer? any of these like brandnamesz.com would not do that anyway.

rock on!

[boa12]

yea, not to step on any brandnamesz.com users toes but I just tried calling their hard to find phone #, got some barely intelligible message, pushed 1 & then it switched to some strange ring like it was going to taiwan or somewhere, then asked me to leave a message. i did saying i was interested in klipsch speaks so we'll see if they ever call back.

for me, they're just a bit of a bargaining chip w/ the local dealer. though i really do empathize w/ those who don't have a fair or any local dealer.

[boa12]

they got back by email & said like i figured that they bot from an authorized dealer & therefore can make a claim to Klipsch. the mechanics of a return somewhat left to the imagination though.

[dougdrake]

I find you need to read these alternate dealers' words very carefully. I was reading a website today that was referenced in another post that had all kinds of audiophile stuff at discount prices. Their warranty words say, the way I read them, that THEY (the seller) will honor the manufacturer's warranty and you need to return the stuff to THEM (the seller) for repair or replacement. That doesn't sound like a factory warranty to me. So you have to wonder if they'll be in business in 5 years...

[boa12]

that's a big 10-4 doug.

md, i'll tell my local dealer lady to call me 1st before she unloads to an unauthorized dealer really she's pretty fair. she knows I know about the big markup to msrp. guess some people even do still buy new cars at msrp these days. but you have to ask for the lower price, even w/ "fair" salespeople.

btw, what happens if you move? can u still take a warranted product into your new klipsch authorized dealer or do you have to ship it back to the dealer where u purchased?

[Arkytype]

As both an authorized Klipsch dealer (1972-74) and as salesman for a Klipsch dealer (1974-1980), I can state with some authority that Klipsch dealers have never enjoyed a 100% markup as Messrs.forresthump and mdeneen claim.

Dealer profit on Klipsch loudspeakers varies between 35-40% which works out to a markup of 53.85% and 66.66% respectively--not 100%.

Back in 1975, a pair of Rosewood K-Horns and center channel Belle sold for $4,082.00. As a salesman,I bought the 3-piece set for $2,041.00!! Still have them. Cheers, Lee

[PhilH]

To clear up the Ubid speculation...Klipsch does sell closeouts directly to Ubid to sell online, and those products do come with the Klipsch Factory Warranty.

As far as the unauthorized e-tailers go, our Internet Policy Statement posted on this BB gives you Klipsch's stance on that subject. I will just add here that several "e-tailers" sell product with altered serial numbers, many sell product that is not factory-sealed, and even more are just plain lying when they talk about warranty coverage. If you feel you cannot deal with that "undereducated" or "sales hype" salesperson face-to-face at a brick and mortar dealer, how can you deal with some of the people with truly questionable character that are on the other end of a phone hundreds or thousands of miles away?

PhilH

[forresthump]

arktype in fact backs our point. maybe it doesn't apply today, but the example he gave shows a 100% markup. the price he paid is 50% of msrp, but the msrp is 100% of dealer cost (twice the dealer cost). 50% markup would be about $3000.

phil, maybe we would rather take that chance without this kind of aggravation with salespeople. seems to be why the no-hassle pricing is catching on. salespeople can be real stress inducers. just the other side of da coin

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go forth & hump the world

[Arkytype]

Forresthump seems to be confusing markup, profit and percentage.

In my example, I bought the loudspeakers from Klipsch for 50% of MSRP. Now, if I then had immediately sold them to someone for MSRP, the percentage markup would have been 100%. (this is the only point forresthump made I don't dispute)

However, the price (or percentage of MSRP) I paid was NOT the same as the dealer I worked for (or what a Klipsch dealer today) would pay for the same loudspeakers. Most high-end manufacturers offer their products to employees of authorized dealers through a sales accommodation program. In my case, Klipsch sold their products to salespeople for 50% of MSRP. The serial number/data sticker on my K-Horns and Belle have a red stamp which reads, SALESMAN'S ACCOMMODATION--SAMPLE--NOT FOR RESALE.This was intended to discourage dealers from fraudulently buying Klipsch products through the accommodation program and reselling at MSRP.

As I indicated in my earlier post, A Klipsch dealer's markup from cost varies from about 54-67% depending on quantity purchases, specials, etc.. BTW, most high-end audio products have less profit margin percentage-wise than the mass-produced imports.

Forresthump's statement that, "...the MSRP is 100% of dealer cost (twice the dealer cost)." is self-contradictory. If, "...the MSRP is 100% of dealer cost...", then the MSRP IS the dealer cost. The MSRP is NOT, "...(twice the dealer cost)." If the dealer cost is 65% of MSRP, the MSRP is not twice but 1.54 times the dealer cost.

This lengthy explanation is making my hair hurt, so I'll stop.

A Klipsch dealer is (usually) carefully selected and also carries complimentary product lines to help the end user get the most from their Klipsch loudspeaker.

I never sold a Klipsch loudspeaker at a discount because I didn't have to. Properly demonstrated, a Klipsch product will sell itself.

I don't think you will find a fanatically-driven bulletin board like this on the Yamaha web site!

Regards to all, Arkytype.

[forresthump]

ark, oh i took accounting 101. sorry i was assuming that the dealer sold it to you at his wholesale cost. i was talking pure dealer markup. that's: msrp-dealer cost/dealer cost. so assuming the dealer sold them to u at his cost, then msrp(4000)-dealer cost(2000)/dealer cost(2000)=1 or 100% dealer markup. if you're saying u got them for less than your dealer/employer paid for them then that's another thing - a great deal in fact. & means then there was a total markup TO MSRP of 100%.

sorry for my biased assumption (dealer not manufacturer cost), though u didn't make it clear in your initial statement.

we're shell-shocked out here in the trenches.

the point is just to move a product out to consumer w/ no real service needed, we should have an outlet that can get by on a 20% at most dealer mark-up (which is what the etailers can do).

peace out!

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go forth & hump the world

[forresthump]

right on mdeen! the only losers are the good ole boys authorized dealerships that can't or won't adopt to modern distribution strategies. & unfortunately they're the top priority in klipsch's strategic thrust.

another thing missing in ark's dealer markup figures i'm sure are the manufact. rebates & other soft dollars back to the dealers.

again the speakers are great, but our cost is the common denominator of value.

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go forth & hump the world

[gguy30]

I work at a audio shop selling klipsch products so you have to ask me what i think about online stores.

but here is what i think is fair.

There are some shops online that are selling new speakers for 50% mark up to try to get new customers but if you see something at 50%msrp then you have to ask yourself what is going on.

Online shoping is nice and most of the time it is much cheaper then going into a store. I buy lots of my stuff online. But here is where my job kinda kicks in. I think that it is k for people to buy things online but the problem is most people dont do that. Most of the time they will go into a audio store ask all the questions and then go online to buy the product. that i think is not fair to the sales person that spent 1hr with you picking out the right speaker. And the funny thing is sometime people buy thing online and walk into the store to ask me questions about it. like how to set it up. haha what do you think my answer to that question would be?

oh last word.

It is k to buy things online if you trust the company that you are buying from and read all the fine print.

But dont come to me if you have any questions.

[Guest BobG]

Since I can't leave well enough alone...

Klipsch dealer profit margins are typical for the speaker business. You can argue all you wish that the dealer is making too much money under this dealer cost to MSRP pricing structure, but until you are intimately familiar with the costs of operating a decent audio/video store, you are not speaking from an informed perspective. I do not mean to be harsh, but this is reality.

Any dealer can choose to sell products at low price. If they take an occasional lowball deal, they are not threatened. If their overall profit margin dips much, they cannot afford to stay in business.

You tired of poor service from uninformed sales staff at under stocked dealers? Well guess what? When dealers make low profit, they can't afford to pay good help or keep knowledgable sales people. They cannot afford to maintain broad inventory and they Certainly cannot afford to support 'niche' products such as Klipsch Heritage models. This is the real world of business.

Klipsch has taken a difficult approach toward the internet. It would be simple for us to allow anybody to sell our goods anywhere any time. In fact, we get our price no matter whether the product is sold by some slime ball pirate or by the most upstanding, customer service oriented dealer in the world. All the same to us regarding profit. Then why don't we choose that approach? Because we believe it is a really short term approach.

Do not take me wrong, Klipsch struggles to keep Your price as low as is possible given the reality of the world we occupy. When dealers charge too much, need too much, etc. we become less competitive and lose sales. We are not in business to lose sales. Neither are we in business to be a not-for-profit organization. No punches pulled here.

The internet is a constantly evolving environment and we are committed to constantly revising our approach to the world. We have been extremely open with our dealers in this regard. We also believe the world dominated by clicks without bricks is not tenable for companies such as Klipsch. There will be adjustments in our approach over time. These adjustments will continue to support the consumer. Lowest price is not the only factor in that structure.

As a closing comment, for now at least, be advised that we buy goods from internet dealers all the time. We track the source and work to eliminate supply through dealers who are abusing the trust of our customers. We have a large collection of product with altered or excised serial numbers. No warranty on that stuff. Sellers that take this approach are ripping you off. You may not wish to believe so, but when you cannot get warranty service, you will change your attitude. Klipsch is dedicated to taking care of our customers in a wide variety of fashions, and preventing piracy is one of them.

I attended a conference wherein an internet year was described as being three months long. What worked on the net last year doesn't work today. As a company with a history that goes back to before most of us were born, I promise we are not going to act rashly. We will steer a steady course through the challenge of the internet. This is not a head in sand approach and before the end of the year you will likely see some things considered daring or leading edge by many.

Thanks for allowing me a moment on the soapbox.

Bob

[Smitty3116]

I would like to post an opinion to the internet sales discussion. I totally understand Klipsch's opinion in this matter. It's much easier to control what it sold if you have a handle on the dealers. It's also probably very hard for thier dealer's when people are buying cheaper on the internet. That being said, I have to come at this from a "customer" perspective. Where I live there is 1 dealer within a reasonable distance. This is a store that has already ripped me off once. I would never go back there again. Now what do I do? If I want to buy a pair of Klipsch seakers, I have to drive 50 miles with speakers hanging out of the back of my car, which in a 95 Riviera is no small feet. Also, I want a pair of KLF 20's, which are not even available at the store where I could go to and be ripped off again. Their price isn't all that bad, but when you need warranty repairs or have problems, the people that sold it to you basically tell you to get stuffed. Sometimes you have to look out for yourself, and sometimes that means taking chances. Sorry Klipsch, if I had the money, I would become a dealer in my town, and do the product justice. As for now, guess I'll have to take a chance on the internet.