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Arkytype

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  1. Here's a copy of page one from the original 1986 November Audio with the text you cited. Wonder where Heyser got the "8 feet" information. PWK? Some forum member has published the complete Heyser review in the past but I could post what I have. Lee Review page 1 of 6.pdf
  2. Circa 1988 Klipschorn: + or - 3 dB 35 Hz--17.5 kHz; Current? non-AK6: + or - 4 dB 33 Hz--17 kHz. AK6: + or - 4 dB 33 Hz--20 kHz. Did quite a bit of looking thru old audio-type magazines from the '50s to modern times including Wireless World, Audio Engineering, Radio & TV News, Radio Electronics, etc. Couldn't find any mention of the unfolded length of the Klipschorn. This site is a treasure trove of old technology and it's searchable. There are some good articles on horn loudspeakers, just search each magazine or the entire library. https://www.americanradiohistory.com/index.htm Lee Audio-1965-10-OCR-Page-0077.pdf
  3. Tony Martin and his team of "industrial designers" (or who ever is responsible) should be horsewhipped for turning the Klipschorn's classic appearance into a bad joke. By removing the "B-style" collar separating the bass horn from the upper housing, the balance and beauty of PWK's visionary styling has been lost in favor of .......what exactly? According to Klipsch ad copy, they "....removed the inset collar or spacer...for a cleaner aesthetic appearance." Oh, to have been a fly on the wall at that fateful design meeting in Indy! Fade up to a conference room where Tony Martin and his design team wizards are reclining in their Aeron office chairs sipping kale smoothies from the Klipsch vending service. "Hey Tony," says one of the minions wiping off his green mustache. "I know how we can save $39.45 in manufacturing costs on the K-Horn----let's eliminate that tacky collar and re-invent the Style C model! I can get us a deal on rubber feet to separate the bass horn from the top section. And, say, while we're making improvements to the K-Horn's looks, let's make it even taller by adding a four-inch ----no, make that a two-inch riser. That'll add to the WAF fer sure. Now, if you've got a minute, I've got some ideas for the Cornwall............" Fade to black. No, what they did was revive the old Style C Klipschorn which did not have the collar. Then, rather than attaching the upper assembly flush with the bass cabinet, they are using what looks to be round rubber equipment feet as spacers. Next, they'll want to enclose the back so you can use the Klipschorn away from the corner. Oh yeah, they already did that. Hey Rogelio, er Chief bonehead; how about showing us some curves of an enclosed Klipschorn cabinet several feet away from a corner compared to the proper corner location? Lee
  4. There was an audible gasp from my Rosewood Belle when she heard she might not be bifurcated. I had to play soothing music to assuage her fears. At least she's not an orphan! Lee verb /ˈbīfərˌkāt/ divide into two branches or forks. "just below Cairo the river bifurcates" adjective /bīˈfərkāt,bīˈfərkət/ forked; branched. "a bifurcate tree"
  5. What the......? Previous post should read, in part, "...co-inventors PWK & Gary Gillum used not only a factor of 12 (instead of eight) for a Pi/2 loading..." Lee
  6. Keep in mind that the Klipsch La Scala, Belle, Jubilee and Klipschorn bass cabinet acoustic paths are bifurcated. I don't think you can arbitrarily add the two internal path lengths together or double the length of the external wall extensions to gain a longer "effective" path. As Edgar states, the measurements don't support that. You can, however, supposedly take either of the "single" mouth areas and multiply that by a factor of 8 (assuming corner loading) to arrive at the total "effective" mouth area. Curiously, in the July 1, 1980 U.S. Patent 4,210,223, co-inventors PWK & Gary Gillum used not only a factor of 12 (instead of 😎 for a Pi/2 loading to determine the necessary mouth size, but they added both of the bifurcated mouth areas together! I'm still scratching my head over that one. Lee US4210223.pdf
  7. I've now both physically measured the path length of one of my Klipschorn bass cabinets and, using the Impulse Response tool within ARTA, made many measurements of not only the bass horn's path length (varying sample rate, chirp length, etc. but also measured (and confirmed) the path length of known distances between a Beyma CP-25 tweeter diaphragm and my 1/2" Bruel & Kjaer 4133 microphone. Since ARTA allows one to enter the room temperature and humidity to change the default speed of sound (344 meters/second), measurements and calculations were made using 346 m/sec. Here's how to read the data block. The cursor located just before the positive-going peak is at 6.484 milliseconds after time zero. Since all AD->DA converters as well as FIR filtering has latency, we must count our starting time not from 0.00 milliseconds but (in the case of ARTA) at sample position 300. Note that the cursor is at sample position 1245. Sample position 300 represents a system latency of 1.557 msec + or -. The time (path length) we are interested in is the gate time which is simply the difference between the cursor location (6.484 msec) and sample position 300 (1.563 msec). A gate time of 4.927 msec converts to a path length of: (34.6 cm/1 msec) =(X cm/4.927 msec) ; X = 170.47 cm or 67.11 inches. So, where does that leave the issue of the claimed "8-foot folded horn low frequency cabinet."? Lee
  8. What I wrote, "Hope Klipsch isn't resorting to deceptive advertising." was written partly in jest. Should I have attached a smiling emoji at the end? With all the puffery associated with most audio product advertising, I was very surprised to hear the voice over of the animated Klipschorn state, "The key to the Klipschorn's deep bass and high efficiency starts with its eight-foot folded horn low frequency cabinet." About the only thing on my Klipschorn that measures 8 feet is its circumference, not the length of its acoustic path. I'll be making some acoustical measurements later today that might clear up the matter. 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊 Lee
  9. Both glens and Edgar make good points. The path (A to I) was chosen more from a measured midpoint at key points along the horn. Once you remove the tailboard and the woofer access door, you can measure just about any distance, dimension and angle. Well, you do have to remove the "bug screen". 'Bout the only thing I couldn't begin to calculate is the rear chamber volume. Obviously, there are longer and shorter paths from the throat to the mouth. Sorry to hear the Klipschorn loses control at point J . :>(. Maybe Chief bonehead can "horn in" re where he thinks the mouth is. Tomorrow, I'll set up ARTA and do some path length measurements. Ivo Mateljan (the author) has just released the latest version. There is a trial version you can download but a licensed copy is only 79 Euros. Great (newly revised) user manuals, too. Lee
  10. sixspeed wrote: "The KHorn now has the rear panel sealed since the 70th editions. That is likely where the extra length of the horn is coming from." Nope, unless the enclosed Klipschorn is located in a corner (where it belongs), you will lose at least 12" of the final horn expansion. Chief bonehead wrote, "Actually it’s about 97.3765”......approximately." Attached are some drawings of one of my Klipschorn bass cabinets. I came up with a throat-to-mouth distance of 70.33333333".....approximately. Where's the extra 24+ inches?? Surely you aren't counting the path from H to I twice? Regards, Lee
  11. Since we're talkin' Klipschorns here and Chief Bonehead's video is being discussed , I'm gonna copy and paste an earlier question posted about the Klipschorn description in the video you can scroll down to after Roy's. Hope Klipsch isn't resorting to deceptive advertising. "Kudos to Roy for a well-done video on the Klipschorn AK6. Has anyone seen the Klipschorn AK6 video? Here's a transcript of the opening narration: "The key to the Klipschorn's deep bass and high efficiency starts with its eight-foot folded horn low frequency cabinet." Say what? Has there has been a major design change to the Klipschorn's bass cabinet? My Klipschorns, which I've had new since 1979, have a bass horn mean path length of about 66"----not the "eight-foot" folded horn described in the video. Does anyone know what "eight-foot" the video refers to? " https://www.klipsch.com/products/klipschorn#product-specs Regards, Lee
  12. Celestial_Sound wrote: So what your point on quoting only negative aspects? My point wasn't to single out "negative aspects" of the RP-600M measurements---I was responding to Pzannucci's interest in two particular performance areas. Had JA not found any untoward cabinet resonances or a more balanced treble output, I would have quoted those findings. Lee
  13. Pzannucci wrote: "It will be interesting on what they say about cabinet resonances and the balance on the highs." From John Atkinson's "Measurement" of the Klipsch RP-600M: "I found on all panels a strong, high-Q mode at 316 Hz and a lower-level one at 422 Hz. These are .... high enough in level that I would have thought they would lead to some midrange congestion." As for the balance on the highs, Atkinson wrote, "Both drivers are relatively flat in their passbands, but....the tweeter is a couple of dB higher in level than the woofer." OK, granted these are $549/pair Chicom-manufactured loudspeakers. However, based upon the Stereophile measurement graphs, it appears the woofer's crossover frequency chosen is too low and the tweeter's response is elevated in an attempt to fill in the dip at the crossover point. He also noted that his estimate of the RP-600M's sensitivity was 6.5 dB lower (89.6 dB(B)/2.83V/m) than the RP-600M's advertised sensitivity of 96dB/2.83V/m. He concluded the review by writing, "Overall, and that lively enclosure aside, the Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-600M offers impressive measured performance, especially when its affordable price is taken into consideration." Lee
  14. Kudos to Roy for a well-done video on the Klipschorn AK6. Has anyone seen the other Klipschorn AK6 video? Here's a transcript of the opening narration: "The key to the Klipschorn's deep bass and high efficiency starts with its eight-foot folded horn low frequency cabinet." Say what? Has there has been a major design change to the Klipschorn's bass cabinet? My Klipschorns, which I've had new since 1979, have a bass horn mean path length of about 66"----not the "eight-foot" folded horn described in the video. Oh, wait. Never mind. I just measured the outside circumference of one of my bass horns and it is almost exactly 96". Mystery solved!!?? Seriously, does anyone know what "eight-foot" the video refers to? https://www.klipsch.com/products/klipschorn#product-specs Regards, Lee
  15. Give Blue Jeans Cable a try. I've used the "Ten White" and "Twelve White" for years. If you know your exact length, they can ultrasonically weld your connectors of choice. https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm
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