mobile homeless Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Just wanted to drop this quick post to the few on here buying new tables. I know "break-in" is akin to a four letter word to many within here. Those that disbelieve can guffaw and hit ye olde back button. But for those others, I wanted to caution you that your new tables might sound somewhat mediocre (ie stiff, constricted, a bit lifeless, perhaps bright) at first listen, or even the first dozen or more sessions. You need to let table, motor, cartridge, etc break-in; the sound will improve noticably in the first week, especially if you use it a lot. Just wanted to avoid frustration when you first hear the decks. For those disbelievers or others thinking your brain is the only thing that does the break-in, what are you doing still reading? heh... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 After digesting the sonic benefits of longer cables as opposed to shorter ones the concept of break-in for components is hardly a giant leap Actually I would expect that most people would have less of a problem with TT break-in as a concept than for other items. Anything that has moving parts can be expected to go through some period of settling (most of us observe a run-in period for cars afterall). With TT's, which are largely mechanical devices there are bearings, belts and motors to run in quite aside from any more dubious claims to electronic run-in. Anyway - put me down as a believer in run-in periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powdermnky007 Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 yeah, i believe in break in periods for sure. I think craziest thing i have heard of so far (not that i'm doubting you guys) is the elevating of cables i think everything is a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Speaking of breakin. I noticed something while setting the tracking force on my new table that may or may not be a problem. When zero balancing it the needle really doesn't float freely it will stay where ever you put it and this is a fairly wide setting with the counter weight. I wonder if the bearing is to tight ? All my other tables float freely and seem looser or more free floating !! Could I have a defect here ? Oh and Mobile I'm a firm believer in breakin !! I think my 299 which has almost completely new caps and resistors is still improving after 2 months since I did the final changes. This amp has been a work in progress for over the last 10 months. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 That is definitely a little circumspect and should really have nothing to do with breakin. Are you saying that wherever you leave the cartridge position when set to equal balance before you set the down force, the tonearm STAYS where you leave it not floating up and down and settling at the balanced spot????? IF this is the case, something is not right. You are only talking about the up and down motion, correct? Also, you do have the anti-skating piece disabled and the nothing impeding the motion? If the conditions I am outlining above are met, then something is wrong most likely, then again, I am not totally familiar with the Project 9 tonearm. But when you are setting the counterweight and the arms does not drop up or down depending, seems to be a problem. AGain, when you set the weight to "balanced" so that arm DOES remain parallel, if you gently tap it, will it move up and down or just stop that direction of the tap? It's one thing for equipment to breakin, and quite another to have some sort of bind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Mobile, Your discription is right on the money. Its like a bearing is to tight. The instruction say to set this before installing the anti skate device. It doesn't float up and down freely like my other tone arms and has resistance or a bind. Its not extreme but made me wonder. Later I will check it to reconfirm this. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Craig, when I unpacked mine and went through the setup, the tone arm DID float freely. It took a little diddling with the weight to get it to float without motion. I've got to read through all of Mobile's links in your other thread. Maybe you could shoot me an email on the side to explain how that protractor gizmo works ... I put it on the spindle and couldn't figure it out. I think it's probably explained pretty well on one of MH's links, so if it is, don't bother taking the time. I'll work through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Chris, Basically all you do is put it on your spindle and set the tip of the needle on the + mark on the protractor being careful to get it dead on the + then position yourself 3' or so back from the table and visually see if the Needle cantilever is running true to the lines looking straight at the face of the cartridge. Then move it to the other test + and if they both line up properly its right on. The only thing I'm in the dark about is how to set the over hang ! Seems to me though if the overhang is correct the needle will line up on both test points dead on and mean that the overhang is correct but I'm guessing at this one. Oh and let me make one more thing clear your not trying to square the cartridge body to the lines here your trying to square the needle cantilever to the lines and hance the record groove. Mobile correct me if I'm wrong. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 26, 2002 Author Share Posted October 26, 2002 Craig, that is right concerning the cantilever. IT is what should ultimately be parallel with the lines on the protractor. On the other hand, this is hard to see for some, so most simply use the parallel sides of the cartridge body as the bases of the alignment. This can ultimately not be the best method since quite a few cartridges do not have parallel sides and also, some cantilevers dont always happen to be parallel to the cartridge body (although you hope this is the case for ease). So while the body of the cartridge is a good indicator, the cantilever is what should ultimately be straight. I usually use the body, and then make sure the cantilever is aligned as well. Chris, I would not MOVE the cartridge until you are POSITIVE it is off. If the overhang is off, the cartidge will not align correctly at both measuring points. You should move it forward and back to get the correct alignment only twisting it to get the last little bit of adjustment if needed. The DB Systems unit comes with a scale that aids in calculating the movement. Based on your reporting of this, I am not exactly sure if you are ultimately setting it up correctly although it seems ok. You should move the cartridge fore and aft to GET the proper position with the twist only coming for the last little bit of correction. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Mobile, I'm absolutely positive I have it set properly !! The cantilever is dead on at both testing points Mobile try to understand I am a Professional carpenter by trade and square & level is my life I can eyeball things when working and then check them with a level and there dead on its almost a miracle !!! What concerns me is the the Cantilever is cocked way to much for my liking compared to the cartridge body. I'm beginning to contiplate calling wally and asking for a new cartridge this isn't what I call quality when the needle is $400 retail. My $99 shure's Cantilever is prefectly square to the cartridge body. I comfirmed that the tone arm does indeed have some resistance when setting it to zero balance also it should in my Opinion be very touchy to get it zero balanced and float up and down for some time before it settles at its balance point. I beginning to think my table was produce on a friday or a monday. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Mobile, Just called Wally and he was very nice about the Cartridge he said if I want he will get a RMA for me direct to Music Hall and they would check it out and send a new one if they thinks its to far out. What he did say that I find redicules is the you should set the cartridge body square and the cantilever will square itself during playback. I explained that is not true with a cantilever this far out. I was watching the TT play while talking to him and if I line up my veiw with the cartridge and then with the canteliver I have to move my head about a 1 1/4 and he said that doesn't sound right !! I also mentioned the tonearm balance and he said that is absolutely normal with this tonearm every unit he sets up is the same way very easy to find zero balance. He said the bubble level is always off but better than nothing and it is better to do it with your own level if you have access to one. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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