Craving Bass, do I have a problem?

[TheEAR]

Dustin,

Say all you want,Adire HAS NOTHING to best the Sunfire Signature in the same space.And nobody has anything this powerful this small. 117dB at 31.5Hz

from a box a wee bit larger then a 12" cube.Try to best the size to output ratio at 31.5Hz GOOD LUCK

Its easy to best the Signature when you take 15" drivers and power them with massive amps in larger boxes.Its very tough to design a smaller sub with deeper bass and one that plays as loud.

Those who listen at ear tearing volume and destroy hearing are plain dumb and deserve to wear crappy hearing aids when older.I listen at...safe levels.TheEAR safe that is!

On one forum there was a whacko who called himself PatD who claimed he can listen at 130dB and not peaks here! Stoooooopid Probably a pizza faced youngster with half a functioning brain using trash can PiOneer or SOny woofaz.

[Soundthought]

-The Ear has got it covered.-

LOL- That's a great line for you.

I like it.

It's all good.

Unless of course, your covering your ear with the infamous Airforce reject Blose noise cancellation so-called headphone.

You might as well be in the cannon.

(LOL)2 + (chuckle - 1)3 = Guffaw or loud snickering.

Just Kidding.

I know you would never allow such sub-mediocre, spare parts salvaged, twice baked, junk cans on your head.

So what does the Ear use for protection?

I use my trusty green foam ear plugs.

Cheap and simple, just they way I dislike it. LOL.

They can muffle the roaring sound of my 870 express popping off 3in mags all day.

To me, that's good enough.

But, I haven't tried many different types of protection devises.

If there is better for cheaper, I would sure like to know about it.

[Dustin B]

Well enjoy the Sunfire. I know I never will. I really hope I can make an infinite baffel sub happen soon. With no sub in the room and massive Vd I think the infinite baffel is the king of space/performance ratio

[TheEAR]

Dustin,

Infinite baffle needs a large "cabinet" or lack of to work.You still dont beat the size to output ratio.I challenged to show me a sub as compact with as much or more output at 31.5Hz.You always go back to this infinite baffle concept,very nice but not a realistic.You fail to notice the vast majority of people will not build or has any will to mod the house to get good sub bass.

The Sunfire SIgnature is practical and compact,the infinite baffle is unpractical and takes space(the volume of air behind the drivers,is real even if you dont see it).

Sunfire by KO

[ajgb72]

wow, so many crazy ideas just came into my head, I had never even considered doing a DIY, I'm going to look into that!

[Dustin B]

Well if zero size in room isn't good enough.

I don't imagine the number of people willing to spend what a Sunfire costs is that much different than the number willing to cut a hole into their attic. I think I could get a Brahma 12" to put out more than a sunfire at 31.5hz. Won't do to well in the last octave and I'd have to put a steep subsonic filter to prevent it from killing the PRs. Would also have to be tuned up around 30hz to not over weight the PRs in an enclosure that small. Can the PR in the Sunfire travel twice as far as the driver. The PR should be able to displace a minimum of twice what the active driver can?

[TheEAR]

Dustin,

No matter what is the real maximum travel of the passive radiator in the Sunfire Signature.It does it job,you dont see anyone produce this much output from a box with a internal volume this small.

And yes people prefer to buy Sunfire,Velodyne,SVS,HSU,Revel,Aerial and even Klipsch then working with saws and cutting holes around.If I had my house and a boat load of money I would not only cut holes but build a custom sub in the cellar,horn loaded monster.But this is an extreme sub and not for most.

[Dustin B]

I hate losing posts due to server errors. Here's an abreviated second try.

Yes, building a horn into your foundation is extreme. An infininte baffel isn't anywhere near that extreme. Given the cost of a Sunfire you are talking about, or Velodyne HGS of comparable size you could easily hire a carpenter to cut the hole, disguise it like a vent, build the manifold, mount the manifold and still have plenty of money left over to buy the drivers, amps and EQ. Disguised as a vent most guests wouldn't even know it was a sub or even think it was something out of the ordinary. The only limiting factor is an appropriate adjacent space (which I think a lot of people have). Why not make use of unused space to lean Hoffman's Iron law to your favor (instead of trying for a tiny box to lean it in the other direction).

The Sunfire subs are neat. Impressive for their size. But even Carver hasn't figured a way around Hoffman's Iron law. And tiny cubes have one other major draw back with bass reflex designs. Making lots of bass means the need for lots of displacement. The spiders and surrounds available now will only let a passive radiator travel so far linearly. So in order to get enough displacement from them you have to increase their diameter. The larger their diameter and the smaller the enclosure the heavier they have to be to tune low (and you can only make a PR so heavy before it will tear itself appart). Don't tune low and you don't get extension and/or cause irregularities in the frequency response that you either live with or EQ out. The Sunfire has to sacrifice extension and/or linearity to get to the numbers it does at it's size, no way around it. I'd also be extremely surprised if there isn't any EQ in the amp it comes with.

If you want to try for the small sub, stick with sealed designs, bass reflex ones can't be tuned low enough to provide clean low bass when that small. Which is why I'd take a 16" sealed cube Tumult over a 13" sealed cube 12" Brahma over a 13" bass reflex cube Sunfire without hesitation.

[TheEAR]

And still Dustin you DONT get it!Most people dont own their own homes and even the majority who does will NOT start cutting and modding the walls,floors and toilets to get more bass they dont even need in the first place.If you were right then Sunfire,Velodyne,HSU and good ole SVS would have no reason to exist.

And who cares if the Sunfire amp uses EQ to achieve a linear response down to 30Hz and below.Sure it does as do all Velodyne and all compact subs.The fact is it works darn well and it provides all the sub bass any sane person could ask for.Even with K-Horns the Sunfire Signature keeps up.Where it does nor keep up it would simply be stupid to loose hearing because of massive SPL.

Bob Carver little subs set a standard for compact subs and now look at all the ME TOO's who follow.

I always smile when the guests listen to a few movies on my Klipsch/Sunfire system and then to the larger Dynaudio system and ask where are the BIG subs.They think I have some hidden monster...NO ITS THE TINY SUNFIRE SUBS.Real funny

The Sunfire Junior is the size of a small PC bass module yet its a real sub.Bob is the man when it comes to microsubs,and he is also a true maverick of amplifier design(the reason he can build such small subs in the first place),and his Sunfire power amps sound great too,plus pack more watts per/lb then any other amplifier design.And generate the least heat!

When placement is optimal and cutoff points below 50Hz the Sunfire Signature have nothing to be ashamed even facing a big Velodyne(and I know this because I have the HGS18 too).