maxg Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 My TT is ripe for an upgrade or 2: AS most of you probably know currently I have the Project RPM 4 TT with the Project 9 arm and the Project K4 head matched to the project phono stage (the PhonoBox). Whilst this tears to shreds the sound from my digital sources I am well aware that better sound is out there in the wild world of analogue. Tony (my long suffering audiophile friend) is driving me nuts to move up in the world. He is big on this MC cartridge kick and recommends I go that route along with upgrading the phono stage and potentially the arm as well. Now I am all for a play so here is what I am thinking: Buy the Denon 103 or 110 MC cartridge (similar units but the 110 has higher output I understand), choose a phono stage and keep the arm and table as is for now. Questions are as follows: 1. Are either the 103 or the 110 a good match for the Pro-ject 9 arm? 2. What phono stages would be worth considering with either of these cartridges? 3. If I were to also upgrade the arm what would be a good choice, the Pro-ject 9c? Something else? Potential candidates I have identified for the phono stage are the Creek and the Project Phonobox SE. The problem is that nether seem to set the world alight with praise, but, on the other hand, I have no wish to match a much more expensive stage to what is, afterall, a rather budget TT in the first place. My final questions are with regard to my assumptions. I am assuming that the order of impact on sound of upgrades is: 1. the Cartridge. 2. The phono Stage. 3. The arm. 4. The TT itself. Is this correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Max, I think the order of importance for TT performance is 1.Table 2.Tonearm 3.Cartridge 4.Phono stage/section Some consider the Phono stage as no.1, but a great phono stage cannot make a mediocre table/arm/cartridge sound great. Upgrade should be to the weakest link first. I don't think you should be pushed to MC, especially LOMC. There are a lot of $$$s between the purchase of a LOMC and nirvana. I said once before that a MM cartridge upgrade would probably give you much more bang for your buck, or maybe even a HOMC. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Wow Jazman, That list sure is different from my take. So logically you are saying I would get a better reward looking to replace the table rather than the surrounding components huh. That puts a cat amongst the pigeons for sure!! Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Max, Did your Project RPM 4 TT with a Project 9 tone arm come with any documentation on the project 9 arm ?? If so there are a few of us that sure could use a copy for a MMF-7 Turn tables that come with no Info on the arm. Thanks Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Yes - but mine is in German!! Have you been to http://www.project-audio.net/ That site has all the manuals on it - I got one for my TT in English. Cant remember if there was much on the arm other than moving that stupid fishing wire weight thing for different cartridges. I think mine told me to put it on the middle ring of the 3 available. I think its the anti-skate device or something. Anyway I will check what I have at home in the manuals drawer. If anything comes up I will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Max, I am surprised that you haven't mentioned any Thorens TT yet. They are frequently offered on ebay and if you are lucky and find a 520 you are even ready to use a 12" arm one day (like the 3012 SME) which can be used with both Denon 103 or (my favorite) an Ortofon SPU. Granted, arm and cartridge (read SPU) aren't cheap, but worth the $$. If funds are mor limited, I'd go for a 'smaller' Thorens perhaps with 'short' SME arm. Just my .02$ Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Nos, Go to the project site listed above and download the manual for the RPM 4 TT. It has some info on the arm and its setup which should prove useful. There isnt anything tehcnical for the arm itself. Dubai, Thanks - I may look into it. Right now I was planning to concentrate on getting the most out of my current table rather than looking to new ones (or 2nd hand ones). AS it happens I think I know what table I want to eventually end up with once I have exhausted the project options (www.acousticsolid.de - check out the "machine") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 FYI, click here for the TT link Max is referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Thanks Edster - my bad - fingers working faster than brain again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Actually, this is the link that Maxg is referring to regarding the info on the Pro-ject 9 tonearm. It is for the Pro-Ject RPM-4 table but if you download the manual in .pdf form, you will see some more info on the arm. http://edi-zain.de/project/en/rpm4.html I made a Pro-Ject 9 Manual for the users here. See the Pro-Ject 9 Manual thread kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Because I am an idiot... I am making a quick manual for the arm. SEE Pro-Ject 9 Manual Thread. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Max, What I am saying is, my list is the order of consideration of where to put the youor money when making the initial purchase. Once the purchase is made, or dealing with an existing purchase, go to which ever is considered the weakest link. You had mentioned replacing the tonearm AND cartridge. I am saying that a cartridge upgrade, no tonearm replacement, without the cost requirements of a LOMC upgrade, should do quite a lot for the sound. A better phono stage for MM and HOMC cartridges could then be the next consideration. BTW MMF-7 owners, I thought Mobile mentioned, and I know I have, that the MMF-7 tables are made in the same factory as Project tables, and with many of the same parts, just configured differently. That is one of the reasons for the low cost of the table. It shares common parts with (Sumiko)Project tables, instead of designed from scratch components. The MMF-7 arm is the same Project 9 arm. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Max, talking about getting the most out of one's TT I thought I add my most recent experience. In a way I am like you, letting 'the experts' do the tricky stuff like setting up a TT or soldering cables etc. Well, one effect of frequenting this BB is that I have started trying to find out what I can check in order to see if those 'experts' are really reliable. Soldering I still shall avoid, but checking VAT isn't really difficult. So here is what happened: The dealer who was responsible for setting up the TT had sold this arm/cartridge combo before, so you imagine he knows what he is doing. He might actually do, but who guarantees that on that particular day/hour he is/was in the right mood to be as acurate as one should be? Having read a lot of remarks on VAT recently I got the necessary tool out and started having a look first and, noticing that the arm was rather low at the back, began raising it slowly step by step. To make the story short, I ended up with a position which has improved the spacial dimensions of the soundstage considerably. Suddenly it is as if the music is floating in mid-air in front of and between the speakers. In a sense it's almost like adding another first-class piece of gear to the chain. So try to maximize your current TT first - perhaps you are also in for a heavenly surprise. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Mobile really dude your not a Idiot !!! Thanks Max and Mobile !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 NOS, I take it you dont vant ze manual in ze original Deutche vich is vhat I found last night. On the other hand I think Dubai is in Germany - maybe he can translate!!! Just kidding but that aside what a doofus I am for not checking out my own link. I now have a manual for my TT in English!! Anyway glad you too are up and running with a manual finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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