SWL Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 https://youtu.be/8fFRbj8rpCo Curious how many here actually use this method. It's been about 11 years now since I experimented with toe-in and placement for my KLF-30's. I remember trying this method but ultimately settled on a 3" toe-in after a lot of experimenting. I think I'm going to try this again. I have no issues with the 3" toe-in I have now but if this method enhances imaging and soundstage than it's worth trying. Hey, it's free..... Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I use extreme toe in, but maybe not that extreme. I have the speakers positioned such that they cross just in front of the listening position. Too much and you lose some immediacy and snap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 I use extreme toe in, but maybe not that extreme. I have the speakers positioned such that they cross just in front of the listening position. Too much and you lose some immediacy and snap. So what differences did you hear with this method vs having the speakers aiming just to the right and left of your melon?Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The soundstage is a little wider and the midrange is a little "less sharp". Center image is more focused. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 8:23 AM, SWL said: It's been about 11 years now since I experimented with toe-in and placement for my KLF-30's. I remember trying this method but ultimately settled on a 3" toe-in after a lot of experimenting. KLF-30s with one replaced woofer One subject that I've not seen broached in context of toe-in discussions is the type of midrange horn that you have in your loudspeakers. With the traditional full exponential horns of the Klipsch Heritage series, they tend to have a polar coverage that collapses toward higher frequencies, and that the SPL falls off away from on-axis at all frequencies, sort of like this from a Peavey loudspeaker under test: The toe-in white paper written by Bill Waslo assumes this is the case with your loudspeakers such that as you begin to turn the entire loudspeakers toward the center, the higher frequency energy of the midrange and tweeter begins to decrease almost proportionately. Such is not the case with the KLF-30 and the K-402 horns. Here is a slightly different way of showing polar coverage of the KLF-30-type straight-sided, tractrix-flare horns: Note that above ~7-8 kHz, the polar coverage of the compression driver throat and phase plug actually controls the polar coverage of the horn (unless an extreme "Mantaray" type slot is used in the horn that has a fairly long length). In the case of the KLF-30 and K-402/K-510 horns, if you turn the horn sideways toward the center of the room, almost nothing happens to its SPL vs. frequency until you get to the ~40 to ~50 off-axis point, which is the design coverage angle of the horn. This is outstanding horn performance. However, Bill Waslo's toe-in trick doesn't work as well in this case. I tried different toe-in schemas using the Jubilees (K-402 and KPT-KHJ-LF bass bin). In general, if the horns are within the coverage angle of the horns horizontally, you will not hear a lot of difference until the horns are at 40 to 50 degrees toe-in to the listening position. That's almost 70 degrees of total toe-in of the horns/bass bins relative to the side walls. So I've found that the toe-in is really there for these horns to keep the early reflections off the side walls, and that's about it. I toe-in at or slightly more than the centerline of the horns pointed straight at my listening positions, crossing a little in front. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitlow Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 https://youtu.be/8fFRbj8rpCo Curious how many here actually use this method. It's been about 11 years now since I experimented with toe-in and placement for my KLF-30's. I remember trying this method but ultimately settled on a 3" toe-in after a lot of experimenting. I think I'm going to try this again. I have no issues with the 3" toe-in I have now but if this method enhances imaging and soundstage than it's worth trying. Hey, it's free..... Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk My Heresys are tight in the corners and are toed in 45 degrees. This way they are more efficient and Bass is better. Use the corners much like the KHorn. Imaging is superb.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnheresy4 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Hi I have heresy IVs and when I play Vince Guaraldi Charlie Brown album track "Oh Good Grief" I hear the piano on the right and bass on the left. I don't get a center Piano image. When I play the song "Sandu" Clifford Brown, Max Roach Quintet the sax is dead center. Perfect image like the speakers are inside the cabinet. Same speaker position. Is this normal based on the way the tracks were recorded or is this speaker placement? Thanks John the newbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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