Heresy IIs don't sound good anymore - HELP!

[HDBRbuilder]

Tigerwood...that's the whole damned problem...just about everything I really know I like, has already been "re-discovered", or was never "forgotten" along the way to start with!! LOL! My favorite separate S/S power amps of all time are the Dynaco Stereo 400 M/A models...and they never go for cheap! I also like the H/K Citation 11/12 combo for S/S...but they generally don't go for cheap either. I have always liked the H/K Citation II tube amp ALOT, but it is way outta my price range!!...for now, anyway!! There are loads of pre-amps I like...depending on whether I want bells and whistles to play with, or just a pretty basic pre-amp!!...this applies to both S/S and tube pre-amps for me. Hard to pin that segment of the separates down for me...since there are so many I would be totally satisfied with in each arena. In amplifiers there are some S/S models that I really like the sound of, but their reliability really sucks...so that factor leaves them in my "do NOT buy" category, sadly.

One thing that immediately turns me away from a piece of equipment is any unwanted backround noise...no "hiss" and such for me!! The bad thing about Klipsch speakers is that they always show that up, too!! If I was wanting to listen to lesser speakers, then I would probably have loads more items on my "great equipment" list...LOL!

In the future, when the time is right, I intend to look into surround pre-amps for an H/T set-up, but I hope to be able to use those Dynacos for the power amps.

I also want very much to continue picking some brains for what I need to build my own tube set-up...instead of just buying it and doing a number of recommended mods...I want to build it from scratch with the mods already in it! It looks as if I MAY have found some local brains to pick, too...recently...so that project will slowly unfold in the near future, hopefully. I am in no rush...still have to purchase a few more parts to build my Cornwalls...for that system. I do envision something in the tube amp realm based upon the H/K Citation II, though...only time will tell.

I am currently stuck in a one-bedroom apartment...totally filled up with stuff...so...I am NOT in the ideal situation to be in a rush getting a number of different kinds of listening set-ups up and running. Hopefully this current situation will change in the near future!

Funny thing about all these years of listening to stuff...is that the habit I had of REMEMBERING a truly great-sounding piece of equipment is still with me...but I have been listening to stuff in most price ranges for over 25 years, and fail to see very much of it in the past 15 years or so that I was impressed with enough to even try to remember the model/manufacturer!! I don't know why...but that has been the case for me!! Maybe I am just too damned picky!! LOL!

[mobile homeless]

Andy, Andy, Andy.... Lord.

Now I know you mean well here, but for the love of St. Nick, you cant go saying you have heard a ton of gear in the last 15 years and nothing really stands out. In my opinion, there have been a number of amps and preamps that produce excellent sound, bettering the majority of 70s mid-fi solid state offerings, both integrated and separates.

I think it's great you recommend the little HK 430 receiver...or even the other HK twin power series amps. At the price, what can you get to equal it? But to start saying it betters most modern solid state offerings with nothing much made since that competes is just not true or responsible really.

Perhaps if you bring in the mid-fi gear you see stacked up at Best Buy, Circuit City, and other such establishments, the 430 is just a bargain. I wouldnt argue. But you have to stop somewhere and you now are just saying anything that comes to mind and declaring it true.

I am not the biggest solid state proponent. But I HAVE heard a host of good solid state amps that or an order of magnitude better than the 70s integrateds. Call it a GREAT bargain. Say it's a steal for the low price.

But you have to admit, there are a host of solid state amps that have far more detail, resolution, imaging, soundstaging, and extension, not to mention a more quiet background. Yes, we are talking a bit more money here but money well spent.

Amps from the likes of 80s-90s B&K, PS Audio, GAS, Mod Squad, Superphon, Monarchy Audio, Musical Fidelity, Creek, Sumo, Adcom, Aragon, McCormack, PSE, Audio Alchemy, Acurus, Parasound, Audiolab all had amps FAR better than the typical dreck found in the electronics mass market dumps... and all models under $1000. Any of these would typically sound far more refined then almost ALL 70s solid state integrated amps, in my opinion.

Move over $1000 and you have models on a different plateau. Then you start to bring in the likes of YBA, Classe, some Mark Levinson, Linn, Naim, Perreaux, Boulder, Bryston, Exposure, Threshold, Jeff Roland, Pass Labs, Krell, Chord, etc...etc. Actually, there are more quality amp manufacturers now than back then. I just know you havent had the chance to hear many of these units, and that's fine. But to discount what you havent seen with a sweep of the hand doesnt play right either.

But you are right, in the super cheap sweapstakes, it appears as if vintage SS integrateds like the little HK 430 really hold their own against the SS A/V receiver crap out there that is piss poor for 2 channel music and that the majority of American consumers consider FINE audio/video.

On the other hand, if you drop these 70s solid state integrated amps up against some of the 50s/60s vintage tube integrateds, there is just no contest, at least based on my listening experience. I have heard the twin power HK series but not in YEARS. As we have discussed, I am going to get one of these little units for a bedroom tuner system. But there are a HOST of solid state amps out there that go to the next level across the board. Although I will agree, it is easy to cross the line into the less musical camp with solid state.

I applaud you for lauding the little 430. But just dont write off the entire marketplace without experiencing the lot of it. Modern Mid-Fi is at an all-time worst. But there is some nice gear out there!

kh

[HDBRbuilder]

Kelly, read what I said...word-for-word. I am just being honest here. Granted, I have not been exposed to every damned thing made since I first started listening, either. And my BEST experience in having an opportunity to just walk down anytime I felt like it and listen to just about anything out at the time was when I was on active duty stationed in Europe. Otherwise it has been a menagerie of going to different shops wherever I am at the time, and giving things a listen...to include cities I have travelled to. But I have also not exactly been living in major metropolitan areas the last 15 or so years, where there is much more variety in the shops, and many more competing high-end shops to begin with. But I have heard numerous systems over the years in people's homes too! I never said that there haven't been any good items to come out since the 1970's, but I will say that even numerous extremely expensive highly touted separates I see mentioned in this forum have not impressed me sufficiently to have any desire for them over items I already have a desire for!

Maybe my ears aren't as attuned to things as others' are...but I do know what I expect things to sound like, and that determines my judgement! If an oboe sounds like an oboe to me, then it is! Same for a violin, or a cello, or a kick drum, or anything else!

I don't sit around and read every issue of audio mags that come out...and rush down to the nearest place that has a particular item that has been touted as the current "end-all" to the ongoing search for audio perfection. I just listen to whatever I can whenever the opportunity arises. If it sounds right to me, then I like it, if it doesn't then I don't like it. Pretty simple! If I REALLY like it, then I remember it...if not, it is not even gonna register! If it DOES get registered, though, in my mind, then I delve more into it...to see if it is dependable, still being made, etc. What irks me more than anything is to find a piece of equipment I really like the performance of, but then find out it is gonna last maybe 5 years before squatting!!...IF the owner is really lucky!! I have NEVER had the wherewithal to be able to go out and spend big bucks on something that I can't rely upon for a LARGE NUMBER of years...sorry! I refuse to purchase an item from a manufacturer that may be out of business within a handful of years, leaving me stuck with a broken item that has no service available for it anymore...those items get the automatic DELETE from my list! It doesn't matter how wonderful an item sounds when it is sitting there broken and nobody around to fix it, unless I am willing to pay more than it cost to start with to get somebody to fix it!! That is a MAJOR point to ME!!

Look around for a few minutes...think of all the wonderful pieces of equipment you have had the opportunity to judge over the years...now...how many of them were actually extremely long-lasting and reliable for a decade or more in regular use, delete the rest...then from what you have remaining, delete those items made by manufacturers who have since gone out of business, or were never in business for long to start with...what do you have left? Not much!! Now delete those items that have such hard to find replacement parts in them that you will end up spending more on having a shop to make the repair than the item is really worth to begin with!...even less is left on that dwindling list! See what I mean? Now delete those items that only the rich can afford to begin with...the list keeps getting smaller, doesn't it? I rest my case.

[mobile homeless]

Actually, in all honesty, what are some highly touted preamp/amps you have heard at length in a good setup that you found subpar? Honestly.

I am just saying there are a lot of great amps out there. You just have to be careful making this statements unless you temper it with some reserve since you havent heard a good portion here (the stuff you were probably exposed to while in the Military years ago isnt on that list). Listen, as stated, I know you mean well and know you are VERY happy with the HK Twin Power Series. But there are some good amps out there from a host of quality makes, some in business and some not.

To be honest, I have had very few repair problems with any of my SS gear in the past. I usually leave it on most of the time and it seems to do fine. I never turned off my SS gear unless leaving town. Most of the better gear is reliable. And I have received FAR better service from the likes of B&K etc than anything from the BIG manufacturers.

That last paragraph of yours sounded nice and was concluded quite strongly, however, most of the gear that I listed in that post is still floating about, many of them working as fine as new. I have listened to samples of just about every one of those manufacturers gear. Most of that list is very reliable and many of the companies still going. To be honest, all of them are in a better state sonically than modern Harmon Kardon offerings. And once again, 99% are better than the 70s integrated options. But I will admit, it will COST you more money. You recs are GREAT bang for the buck.

kh

[mobile homeless]

Andy, I thought you might like a peak at a bike my buddy just got yesterday. It's an R90 conversion from around 1968.

kh

[HDBRbuilder]

Kelly,

You keep referring to the twin-power series...let me make something clear here...H/K doesn't make ANYTHING TODAY that I have heard, anyway, that I would feel compelled to buy. Not only that, but they made NUMEROUS twin-powered items over the years, and most of them did not impress me that much either. But that PARTICULAR version of their twin-powered receiver models DID and STILL DOES impress me! The "X"30 series...not the later ones, or the previous ones, but THAT ONE in particular! And to narrow it down even farther, two particular models within that particular series...the 430 and the 730.

The same for H/K tube stuff. I have always liked the H/K Citation II amplifier. I have no idea if I like the Citation V or not, but I would love to give it a listen to find out! When the H/K Citation 16 S/S amp came out, I ran down to give it a listen...I didn't like it, but I remembered that only because I was able to give it a head to head comparison with the Dynaco Stereo 400, which I definitely DID like! One of the reasons I probably remember the Citation 16 as one of the things I did NOT like, is because I was so disappointed in it...all the previews and hype over it made me expect to really like it, but that was not the case at all!! It didn't sound appreciatively better to my ears than the Phase Linears, Crowns, etc that were around then...but the Dynaco DID!! I have no recollection of hearing an Eico HF-81, but I trust your judgement on them. I have heard some of the Dynaco tube stuff. I enjoyed listening to an old ST-70 set-up years ago, but it wasn't playing through Klipsch speakers either. I have only recently heard much in the high-end H/T equipment available, but I was not impressed with the sound of what I heard. It sounded good, but it didn't have the warmth or presence I like to hear...and because of that, I didn't care to remember what the unit items were. If I am NOT impressed, then that data is NOT important to me...and I don't store it away! It's that simple. So forgive me if I can't rattle off all the items I have heard over the years, because if I wasn't really impressed, then I won't remember them!

A good example is the amplifier that was used back in MAY when I went down to Hope for a visit. When listening to the Jubilee, I liked the speaker, but I DID NOT like the system that was powering it!! I heard backround noise, and hiss...so I ignored the brands and models...because I had no desire to remember them!

That is how my mind works! I would rather discuss what I DO like than what I don't like, the list to remember is much smaller that way, and it is a more positive way to do things in my way of thinking...LOL! Now...if I hear something REALLY ATROCIOUS, I might possibly remember that, though!! LOL! Make sense??

[HDBRbuilder]

Nice rig...is either R50/2, R60/2, or R69S(hopefully they didn't butcher the engine out of a R/69S to build this) with R90/6 engine in it...hella-type bar-end signals, small tank, sidecar may or may not be original Steib as sold by BMW...signal lights on its fender lead me to believe it is actually a Ural sidecar badged as a BMW-sold steib. The Ural is basically a copy of the old Steib model. It has the smaller of the Meier full touring seats on it. Nice rig. With the 900cc engine in it, he outta grab up one of those aluminum 10 gallon period gas tanks so that he doesn't have to stop for gas every 100 miles while touring on it. If it isn't gonna be used for touring, just putting around on local rides, that small tank is ok. 900cc conversions are very common for /2 sidehack rigs. I have a good lady friend who has a R75/5 sidehack rig...she has no idea exactly how many miles were on the bike before she bought it, and built her sidehack rig, but she has over 250,000 miles on that rig since she bought it...LOL!...and she runs it at around 75-85mph all the time when she is in a rush on the superslab!! 85 is all it will go, too! LOL! I have been known to do an all-niter of 11 hours to go 765 miles a few times myself...just three stops for gas and sodas along the way...at 75+ mph...leave at 7 pm from here...get to Deal's Gap in NC at 7 am eastern time...nice little putt! LOL!

[dkbks]

Good discussion here between Mobile & HDBR. I would agree with Mobile regarding reliability of SS equipment from the manufacturers he mentioned and similar lines. Most of the stuff I've seen fail come from low cost Technics, low-end Sony, unheard of names from chains, etc. In order to keep the cost very low, components in these pieces are very very cheap. Reliability is much higher in the better built items. My Adcom 535 amp had been run almost daily for near to 12 years with no problems. The GTP 400 tuner/preamp has been almost as good though it did need the source selector switch replaced twice. I will concede that the jury is still out of much of the stuff which is now made in China.

[HDBRbuilder]

DKBKS,

Although whenever I hear of a piece of equipment not holding up well, I listen...I am much more attuned to a statement regarding longetivity when I know the owner well...that way I can take into account HOW the piece of equipment was taken care of, ie., on a scale of "was it babied?..and it still failed?" ...all the way to the other extreme of "was it severely abused?"...when I put that scale in with the possibility the person just got a "lemon" to start with, because nobody else seemed to have any problems, then I can come up with a decent judgement call on just HOW I should consider its reliability factor into the equation. Of course, the reliability factor becomes a non-issue if I don't like how it sounds to begin with!...ALREADY DELETED!! LOL!

[whell]

FWIW

My little SS 70's vintage Yamaha CA-810 has been going great for over a quarter century. Still sounds rich, full and detailed compared to much of the mid-fi gear I've compared it with.

Up in the bedrooom I've found room for my Sansui 9090 that I use for evening FM listening. Don't like the esound from it as much as I do the Yamaha, but it pulls in FM stations from over 60 miles away with only a di-pole antenna. Can't beat it.

For the money I've spent on these two pieces of gear, and only investing an occasional cleaning, I'd say its money well spent.

No, I might not wring the last degree of detail out of every album and CD, but my system is fun to listen to, and astonishes my friends, some of whom are never seem to be completely satisfied with the gear they buy, even from some of the better hi fi stores in the area.

[heresy2guy]

Wow. Seems like my post has gotten a lot of action! I'd like to take the time to thank everyone who took the time to comment and give their advice and share their experiences. I just may give the Harman Kardon x30 series units a try considering how economically viable they appear to be. I looked at the K/K website and saw that the 430 has 25 wpc and the 730 has 40 wpc. My question is, will I hear a difference? With both units turned to say, 1/3rd their indicated volume settings, will one sound louder and clearer then the other? Also, do they both have a "loudness" button? I've found that that feature makes a HUGE difference when listening to music on my Heresys at lower settings. Again, I'd like to thank everyone who responded, especially HDBRbuilder, who pointed me in the direction of these H/K units that apparently deliver performance that's equal to today's $400 mid-fi receivers but at around 1/8 or 1/4 the price.

[HDBRbuilder]

LOL!...at one-third of the way up on the volume (10:30 on the clock), you will have some serious volume coming outta those Heresys on just the 430 model!! Yes, both have "loudness", but it is really a "contour", and is labelled as such. If you are anything like me, at low listening volumes, you probably really won't see much need for that contour to be on though!...not through the Heresys on these particular receivers, anyway. Both units are very clear-sounding with no backround noise. Yes the 730 has more power, but it is not really necessary for pushing Heresys...the 430 has more than ample power to accomplish that task to your satisfaction(trust me here)...the major advantage of the 730 is in its extra versatility: twice as many tape loops, twice as many aux inputs, twice as many phono inputs, and a bridged preamp-out/main-in connection on its rear! If you actually do get one of these units, holler back here and give your listening impression of it...enquiring minds want to know! LOL!

[heresy2guy]

Well, I just bought an H/K 430 on Ebay for 60 bucks. It's opening price was only $35, but after losing two bidding wars (at the very last minute no less) on two items over the past day and a half I wasn't about to take any chances since it was the only H/K 430 currently being offered. Either way, $60 ain't bad and I'm returning the Technics so it's not a total loss on my end. Too bad I won't get it before Christmas, so I guess this means I'll have to wait for MY Christmas present this year...LOL. I can't wait to try it out! Hell, it can't be any WORSE then my Technics, right, and if so, it's only $60 and I'll just put it back on Ebay. But to be honest, I hope it really surprises me and I'll be able to come back here and write about how good it sounds. And, if it sounds crappy don't worry - I'll still come back and write just so you'll know. :-) Thanks again to all!

[HDBRbuilder]

Heresy2guy,

I am sure you are probably aware of these things, but I posted a list of "to-do's" once another BB member's 430 arrived...for him. It can be found in the "General Questions" section, titled: "Justin, re: H/K 430" if you are interested. It is just a more-or-less common-sense approach for prepping most any old S/S receiver item prior to giving it a first listen, but is directed toward the 430. Congratulations on your purchase, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I think you will. Either way, I look forward to a "review" of it once you get it in! Glad I was of some help to you! I hope you are glad, too, once you hear it!

[heresy2guy]

Thanks, HDBRbuilder - by the way, what type of cleaner were you referring to in your post to justin?

I just sent payment for the unit and hope I don't get burned by buying this on Ebay. My friend bought an integrated amp some time ago on Ebay and the thing wouldn't play right in stereo mode. It would only play in mono. I think it was an NAE. Or maybe an NAD? Regardless, I think he tried to screw around with it but I don't recall what he did to try to fix it. All I know is that he ended up putting it back on Ebay and selling it somebody else. That's one thing I heard about stereo and computer stuff on Ebay - that you're taking a gamble because there's a lot of it that's broken and is constantly relisted due to people trying to get their money back by selling it to another sucker.

I hope to high hell I haven't been suckered by the seller on this unit but one thing's for sure, I'm really quite excited about getting it and trying it out on my Heresys!

[HDBRbuilder]

Well...you never know until you hook something up,whether it will work or not...the risk factor is always there...thank God this is a small investment though...right? I just get that control cleaner/lube at rat shack...it runs around 7 bucks a can or something like that. Seems to work ok for me...but I really DO give the controls a good cleaning with it...until they turn like melted butter on those 430's, if you get my drift...just be sure to wipe up any excess that comes outta those controls when you spray that stuff into them....no easy job in itself...LOL!...but well worth the effort!

[Shaggy and Scooby]

I agree with the buying the Technics Reciever mistake. I had a old Technics surround receiver that my brother had abd didn't work after investigating the fan was bad and I replaced. Well being the good bro I am I told him he could have it back. Since this died he bought a DENON 80 wpc two channel integrated amp. And also at the time bought two used Cornwall's and Chorus's shortly there after. I took the receiver and we hooked it up and played some who through it Yamaha cd changer and audioquest cables. And the sound was like the most degrading thing you heard. So needless to say he kept the DENON and I use the Technics for general TV use. He has his Cornwalls under his Chorus's after building a custom stand of course and the sound almost rivles my uncles four K-Horn setup. The reciever or amp will make all the difference and I would've never believed it until this little experience.