Denon 5800 + Heresys = crap!!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

HELP!

I have a Denon 5800 receiver that I want to use for home theater. I have 2 K-horns and 4 heresys that will be used for 6.1. The k-horns sound great with this receiver, but the heresys are too "horney" or bright.

Before you guys tell me about placement, my JBL L-60's sound fantastic next to the heresys anywhere I put them. The thing that really surprised me was that when I did an a/b between the JBL's and the hereys, the JBL's blended in with the K-horns more smoothly (although I have to turn the JBL's volume up). Maybe it is the JBL's bass response (2 way with 6" driver, put it is ported and a long throw driver). Before you guys trash the JBL's, these ones are part of the L-series from the late 80's. I remember JBL nose diving in the 90's.

I want to use the heresys for my surround. what do I do? Do I need to replace the receiver? (I have a friend dying to buy it from me) I would rather not replace the receiver, but if I have to, what can you reccomend?

My other option is to replace the heresys. They sounded great when hooked up to a tube amp, but just seem to be lacking with the denon. (Before you give me the "lousy equipment upstream" explanation, remember that the K-horns sound great with this receiver. I would guess that the K-horns are more revealing than the heresys.)

Please let me know if anyone else has this problem,

Chris

[T2K]

I'm sure someone will come along now and bash the Denon. I listened to the Synergy's I use now at a dealership in Atlanta driven by HK equipment. Listening to 2 CD's that I use for reference I knew quickly that they were what I had been looking for. They exhibited none of the harshness of which you speak.

Many people that own Klipsch use and swear by tube amplification and bash SS. Maybe its time to look at the speakers themselves. JMO/YMMV.

Keith

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Thanks for the reply,

I need to qualify the statement. The heresys don't really sound that harsh (or like "crap"), just "off" a little. Maybe a little bright or a little nasal. I brought one with me whe I listened to some KLF's and the Heresys sounded much better.

If I didn't have any other reference, I would probably be happy with the Heresys, but compared to the K-horns or the JBL's they just don't sound right.

I did have an opportunity to hear the Heresys (my actual speaker) hooked up to a tube amp and it was really nice. Played female vocals and accoustic guitar. just sounded so sweet, BUT I want to use these for surround on a SS amp. I have a tube amp on the way, but it is for the K-horns. The only reason that I bought all of the heresys was that I wanted a matched theater system that sounded fantastic. (The K-horns will be switched between amps, depending on what system I am using at the time).

I have to say that I am a little dissapointed because the JBL's and the K-horns always sound good. they just vary from really good to fantastic. The heresys seem several paces behind.

Chris

[LyleS]

Hi, Just a suggestion...

The Denon has Pre-outs for all channels... You may want to consider a "Warmer" sounding external amp for the Heresies ...

If you shop used, you won't be out of pocket too much...

Something like the Harmen Kardon PA 5800 would run a couple of hundred bucks, or the 85 w Parasound Amp HCA 855 may be what you are looking for...

Good Luck...

Don't give up on the Heresies, like anything, finding the right synergy for your system takes some time and patience.

[HDBRbuilder]

Tigerwood...just WHAT setting are you using on your surround with those Heresys? Also, check the Heresys by hooking them up to the MAIN left and right of your surround amplifier...and then compare the sound to the k-horns. Surround amplifiers are notorious for sending a different signal variation to the surrounds than to the mains. It also makes a HUGE difference in the setting you have the amplifier/preamp of a surround unit set to....it is all about the system's altering of the signal to the surround speakers using its built-in equalization system, according to the setting you select for the particular surround mode...causes lots of problems when hooked up to accurate and efficient horn-loaded speakers.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

HDBR,

I am running the Heresys on the main front 2 speaker outputs. I put the receiver in the "pure direct" mode (bypasses everything).

This is the same way that I was running the K-horns (which are now hooked up to an older Denon receiver)

When I get home tonight, I am going to switch the heresys with an older set that I have and see if the problem goes away. If so, it is the speakers, if not it is the amp. (I will try different cables too.)

The K-horns sound great on this amp, so it is probably something in the speakers.

I will have my tube amp and teh Harman 630 in a few days. When they arrive I will do some switching with them too to try to trace the problem down.

I really hope that it is something minor withthe speakers because I would like to run all klipsch Heritage for the system.

Chris

[HDBRbuilder]

Tigerwood...on the "problem" Heresys...be sure to check the terminals on them...they are held on by screws that go from the inside of the speaker back, thru the wire terminals of the crossover network and then thru the back istelf, then INTO the terminal...securing the terminal to the speaker back. Look at the terminals...even if they APPEAR TIGHT to the back, ONE of those screws MAY have loosened up over time and backed itself into the cabinet somewhat...causing a poor connection for the lead coming from the crossover network inside the speaker...check to see if BOTH tips of these screws have about the same amount of depth showing on the terminals...if not, then remove the speaker back carefully and tighten them up! While you have the back panel off...check the tightness of the other connections inside the box. Then replace the speaker back, and give it a listen.

Also look at the woofer coil dust covers...really closely...and ensure there are NO breaks in the seam of sealant around the edge...sometimes if a crack occurs there, it lets fine dust get into the voice coil over time...the voice coil may not be rubbing yet, but it may be gooped-up some, if this has happened.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I repositioned the Heresys and hooked them up with a cheap JBL freebe L112 subwoofer. This made a huge difference! Getting the horns at ear level (by putting one set on top of the other) made a big difference. then adding the sub so that there is some bass response evened out the sound. The K-horns still have a fuller sound, but a lot of the problems went away. I noticed that the newer Heresys (I think that they are the newer pair - 1984 v 1979) sound a little more nasal that the older ones. The older HDBR ones are pretty smooth.

The home theater system has 2 nice cerwin vega subs hooked up to a soundcraftsmen anp and a dbx 120. I am currently running the subs with just "really low" frequencies going to them. If I let say up to 100 hz go to them, the system should even out, especially with the K-horns as front left and right for theater.

My only problem is that the center channel heresy will have to sit sbout 10" above the floor (definately not at ear level). I will build an angled riser to help. The left and right surrounds will be high up (about 8 ft) so I will have to angle them down. The rear can be put at about 5 ft, so I can probably let it fire straight and figure that the sound will radiate out (it will be about 14 feet behind the couch on my dining room back wall)

One question though, I want to use the Denon as a control center/switching device. Teh Harman 630 will be in a different room. can I run an RCA from the denon to the Harman (about 25 feet). That would be perfect because the Denon remote is RF and can be used anywhere. Then I can use one CD player, tape deck, phono, Computer MP3, etc.

Chris