Q-Man Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 I'm a little new at posting pictures, so let me try to get a few on here and see if this works. I discribe them if they post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 How about that, I think I know what I'm doing. Santa bought my two sons digital cameras and my youngest took thes pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Q-man im very very impressed, did you build a whole Khorn? Looks that way, thats what i would of liked to do, instead of changing my Klipschorn design! You know, on this altec stuff, ive seen very nice VOTS sell cheaper than cornwallls? Makes me wonder if 1 would be better off doing that instead of modifying the Klipsch! Very nice please keep posting pictures! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 This one shows the side grill cloth removed to get at the woofer door. The woofer door is leaning againts the wall and speaker. I thought that I would show this to those of you who never saw the second half if the Klipschorn network that is attached to the inside of the door. I'm replacing the whole door so I can keep this one stock. The new top front shape is governed by the curve of the 805-B horn, and my over all height limitation of 57". I had to raise the shelf on top of my false corners to fit these under and yet not go too high or the LaScala front effects would hit the ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 The tweeter drops down over the face of the K-Horn But is more at my ear level for movies and music. I'm always in a recliner with my feet up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Q-man is your other set stock? LOL Im glad i reversed mine, yours make mine look sad! 8 cell horns WOW WHOOPS looks like a 6 Hey do you have any spare side grills? Also wasnt it easy to mod the top section? Not bad, i just really do not have the sound room for something like this! 288s ? Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vavoline Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Q-Man, beautiful work. In the words of HornEd, "You are my hero"!! Keep posting updates, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Yes he is trully the Mod genious, a mastermind on sound, and constuction, my mod was just a single piece of Oak ply LOL Regards Jim Q-man, im not against this mod, ive read my replies to you so far, and it looked like i was! Sorry bud Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 This one I had to resize to post, so I'm not sure how it came out. You should de able to see how I raised the shelf above the Klipschorns. I need to trim it out yet. You can also see that I put the University Classic up there in place of the LaScala. It won't be there much longer, because the spot in reserved for my center channel Klipschorn. It will require a different top yet, so I can angle the mid horn and tweeter downward. The Classic sounds rather nice I can cross it over to the sub at 60Hz. I had to cross the LaScala over at 80Hz. I'm hoping that I can cross over the center channel Klipschorn at 45 to 50Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 Jim, I've been busy and havn't been on the Forum much lately, but I read your post and see that you made a U-Turn. There arn't many that would chance back, at leact your honest. I too may go back to a stock Klipschorn, there were sounds that I preferred from the stock version. That's why these top arn't finished yet. There are more things that I want to try yet. Your the main reason that I posted these pictures. I'll once again try to explain what I do and hear over the next few weeks and let you know my final decision. Time to go get some FOOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 10-4 Over and out Ill let you finish here Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 Jim, to answer some of your questions. The 805-B horn is an 8 cell horn, 8 meaning the number of cells and the 5 meaning 500Hz. The 288-16K is a 1 1/4" throat 500Hz. to 16kHz. driver that is 16 Ohms like the K-55 and has a 109db sensitivity. The combo seems to work well down to 400 Hz. Now that I stripped the Klipschorns of the woofer network, something that I never did before, I want to test the bass horns output at 500Hz. Paul used to cross it over at 500Hz., so it might have decent output at that frequency. Then again it might not, because he changed to a 400Hz. network for some reason. I want to try a 500Hz. 8 Ohm Altec network with the 288 and no tweeter. I picked up a pair of 288 8 Ohm diaphragms so I can convert my 16 ohm 288's to match this Altec network. I'll try this after I compare the 288,805, JBL, and ALK network with the stock Klipschorn. To mod the Klipschorn top was easy, because it's not really a mod. It was a build from scratch. All you do is take off two wing nuts and the stock top lifts off of the bass horn. Finding closet room for them is the hard part. The new ones are made out of oak plywood where it will show and and just a smooth cabinet grade where it won't. I'm hoping that once painted black and the grill cloth put on that they won't look so big. No, I don't have any spare side grills. They wouldn't take nothing to make. They are just a piece of 1/2" plywood with three holes cut into it and two angle support brackets. If you need help with them, let me know. I hope to do a little more setting up tonight then start listening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Q-Man-- Re your first picture (dsc00144): you'd better get that telephone out of your speaker, or your horns will ring! Nice job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Q-man at the angle i wasnt to sure if they were 6 or 8 cell horns! I went to my good freinds house, a 1 of a kind guy, and we liistened to the 511s with the 288 drivers on my conrad tube amp, i brought it over! The sound trully was 3 times the K-55-V! At the time, these were matched with the cornwall bass bins, and k-77-ms! OK now ill be honest with all of you! Altec driver Walk all over Klipsch driver, no if or butts about it, thats the plain fact! The true reason why i reversed my mod, was i had no funds to continue, in fact my klipschorns still arent paid for, im paying them off with some of the tax return! Setting my mind on tubes instead, i got my tube pre amp, and 4 new tubes for my conrad! Also another fact of it is, we caint move, im in this same small house, for as long as, (WHO KNOWS) so having a huge mod, really wouldnt work in this room anyway! When i had the 511s on the K-55-Vs, i had to turn it up more, which was bad, to listen to it at night, i woke the kids!! In order to make up for the drop out, on the 511 with the 55s! The k-400 horns are level, at any volume! In fact the night i fist got all tubes going i woke the whole house up! So now i have to get used to this as well! I know as much about any Altec mod, as i do tubes ZIP! Ive failed to own enough altecs to know more! Im new to Tubes, ive only had these 3 months out of my 37 years of life, and 27 years of audio! Ive had some things come up, im not getting cornwalls, or anything else im done, i am OVER SPOILED, just having the Klipschorns and the Tubes, also a amp pre amp SS i still have set aside! Im NO longer as fortunate as some of you here on the BB, yes you are all my freinds, i think very highly of all you, but its time for me to tame myself, and go tward the kids, its looking like we have 3 ADD children, and ill tell you all honestly, i do NOT enjoy my systen at all, half the time i caint hear it, my house is trully that loud! I just do my best at a day by day basis! Sorry for the new sob story, Klipschout Regards Jim PS Dale Walker was ganna make me a set of side grills, im waiting for him to get ahold of me! If he caint, would you mind? I have 2 511s here doing nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Jim---Wait, you had 288s on 511s? 511Es I hope with 1.4" throats. Not on 511Bs with backwards adaptors? That's no good. www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Qman---Are you sure your drivers are crossing over where you want them to? Have you measured the response? You can't go by the nominal impedences of the drivers. Christ knows what that aftermarket Klipsch crossover is doing to the 288s or what the Altec crossver will do with the K-33 unless you measure the response. I think you should get an active crossover, that makes experimentation SO much easier. Just dial up your crossover frequency, balance the high and low, so easy to use. Every experimenter needs one, no lie. www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Q-man you need to talk to John Ellis my Altec freind Please do this for me, i think you guys would get along swell, i think he used the 511 E horns 288s! jellis@ucar.edu Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 Tom, Can you recommend an active crossover? It does sound like something I need, if I can figure out how to use one. The only way I can do a frequency test or evaluation is with the use of a frequency test CD and a sound level meter. Not as tecnical as your probably thinking about. I plan on doing that tonight. I should start to teach myself about crossover designs, because I sure love to build bass horns. I wasn't going to say anything yet, but since I have already formed a few opinions, I will. There is a lot I prefer about the 288/805 over the K55/400, but there is a couple of things that I don't like and it may be because the network isn't designed for this driver. It is cleaner, more detailed, doesn't ring, and seems to be more real sounding. It also seems to have a higher pitch or something that makes it seem not to blend as well with the K-Horn as well as the K55/400 does. Maybe I'm just too used to the sound of the 55/400. At low volume one tap setting seems to work best, but at high volume levels another tap setting works better. At high volumes the 288 seems to get much louder then the 55. I better not say any more then this untill I play with it some more. Right now I would pick the 288/805 over the 55/400. I should also say this about AL's network. While listening I was of course focusing on the midrange. But, after about an hour into it I began to relax and I started to notice a difference in the bass responce. At first I thought that the K-Horn with the ALK network was a little bass shy compared to AK2 K-Horn. This isn't the case. It's kind of like when you hear a bass horn for the first time. You think that it isn't putting out much bass because it is so much cleaner, faster, and more dynamic. Your not hearing that fuller muddier sound. The ALK allows the K-Horn to reproduce tighter, cleaner, crisper, and more dynamic bass. The AK2 has a more harmonizing effect on the K33E or bass horn. The difference is subtle, but noticeable. It was even more noticeable when I played some solo bass guitar and drum tracks from a test CD. This new bass horn sound reminded me of the differences between the University Classic and the Klipschorn. For those of you that are using the ALK in your Klipschorns, I'm sure you noticed this improvement. For those of you that have heard the University Classic this is how you can imagine it. Imagine a scale of 1 to 5 for bass clarity with the Klipschorn being the lowest and representing #1. The ALK Klipschorn would be #2, and the University Classic would be #4. The University can't be a #5 because it doesn't go as low as the Klipschorn. Thus, the ALK was a nice surprise for me. I never expected to hear an improvement in the bass responce. I'll have to see how it compares to my AK3 Klipschorns and let you know. I'll say more later, I need to try to figure out the midrange more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Q-Man----Why not try running the K-33s with NO crossover, just wire them direct. The basshorn's natural rolloff around 400-500hz may eliminate the need for a low-pass filter. Then try the 288s with a simple 6db crossover at 500hz, just a single cap, 20uf for the 16 ohm driver should get you in the ballpark. Use L-pads from Parts Express to balance the 288s to the basshorns. This will be a much simpler setup and might sound alot better than the aftermarket crossvers you're using. I've run folded horn setups like this, you might as well use the folded horn's natural high frequency rolloff to your advantage. What could be better than wiring direct from the amp to the woofer driver with nothing in the path? There are many good prosound active crossovers out there and at reasonable prices too, under $200 will get you a good one. I use DOD. Others are Behringer, Peavey and Rane. Active crossovers are cool because you can experiment easily, you can change crossver frequency witht the twist of a knob and you can easily balance woofer and treble with the controls for doing that most actives have. And the crossover frequency is uneffected by the driver characteristics. Actives are the way to go. And they sound better than passives too; less distortion and better dynamics, always good things, no? The Altec 288 driver is IMO the finest reproducer of midrange and lower highs ever made. When on the right horn it has a realism and life that's unsurpassed. But the extended highs of the smaller Altec drivers have an advantage too. I think I like the 288s and multi-cells best for movies and the 1" Altec drivers and 511 horn for music. That's what I think this week. :-) www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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