jtice Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Yesterday afternoon I came home and found a nice surprise. After a long, patient wait I finally have a pretty nice looking HF-81. I don't know beans compared to most folks here about tubes. And I still don't know if this example is primo or needs work--I suspect it's just fine. But I do know one thing... Last night I was up into the wee hours listening to my favorite CDs like some guy whose hearing had just been restored. I heard sounds I'd never heard before, with clarity and purity that I'd never have imagined through those speakers. I've owned the Heresy II's for 14 years and last night was the first time I realized what they were capable of sounding like. Amazing! Thanks to everyone here who answered my questions and pointed me toward this little jewel. Now I wonder if it couldn't sound even better with better connecting cable, speaker cable and a modern CD player. Any recommendations for a quality CD player for reasonalbe bucks to replace my old 14 year old Denon? What about cables? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I think your preliminary impressions are spot on. The first time I heard mine, my fur stood up on end and my AES SuperAmp when to stand-by status. With horns and nice tubes, that little vintage amp is amazing. If you're on a budget, check out Mobile's sites. He has a nice little 1-bit portable hooked into his Eico and thinks it sounds pretty good. That or a similar unit will only set you back $125 or so. Of course, you could take it up a notch and find a RegaPlanet or a "New Tube" used ... Enjoy the music. That's what it's all about at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 It's a great amplifier. To me, the most like the open quality of a SET amp of the vintage lineup that I have heard. But what is MOST important here, is that it sounds like you got a nice deal on a model that appears to be working well. With some good valves, the beast is really something, even BONE stock, original caps and all. The most important replacement up front will probably be the two PS caps that are orange paper jobs at 30uf. These might have already been done if lucky. As for CD player recs, look at the original Rega Planet, Tjoeb 99 or later, Arcam Alpha 8/8se, or Cambridge Audio. My favorite of that bunch is the Rega but all have good qualities. There are some other options as well. Regarding cable, simple is better although I have had a host of wire work via the EICO. You need spades small enough to fit the terminal strips. The Kimber Kwik-12 is a super cheap cable that works well from what I am told and can even be ordered in bulk. You need one good IC and some ok wire. The Cable Company has demo wire for sale. Also, check audiogon as they have a lot of good cheap stuff come through. Drop me a mail if needed. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 John, If you want to buy a new CD player for a reasonable sum (you don't say what your dollar range is), buy an SACD player. All SACD players also play CDs, and some of them play DVDs too if you want to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtice Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 I'm don't really WANT to buy a new CD. I'd much rather spend that money on music. I'm using a 14 year old Denon that seems to work and sound OK. I thought the same about the old Denon amp until heard the HF-81. But it's hard to imagine that a CD player could make as much difference as the amp. So that's really the question... if I spend a few hundred on a new CD will I hear a dramatic difference or is the older player giving me 95% of what's on the discs already? JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 A few hundred wont buy you too much, sadly enough. I would stick with the old till you get more than $200 for a player. Yes, it will make a big difference in the sound as the source is very important. No, it wont make quite the dramatic difference the Denon to EICO HF-81 made. Depending on the condition of the EICO, that can be a huge jump. You will be refining your sound now with better gear. But a good CD player is important to me (I actually like good vinyl even more). If you can since $325 or so, a used Rega Planet is VERY nice. Very mucical and about the closest to analog. Well built as well. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtice Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 mh, didn't mean to imply a hard limit, although I do need to keep a lid on it overall. If I could take it up another notch for $325 I'd do it. I know that it may not be as huge as the amp, but even a third of that difference would be significant. So I guess I'm in the market. One on ebay but it's already up there with four days to go. Appreciate the help once again, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 As Kelly said, a cd player does make a difference. The quality I've noticed in change has been the music smooths out a bit, not as digital sounding, dynamics come more forward, better detail. Kind of like opening the window & letting the sound in. A good cd player gets you that much closer to the VINYL experience. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I don't expect any CD player to move me closer to the 'vinyl' experience, I think they simply occupy two completely separate realms. What I want my CD player to do is sound GRAIN FREE -- which as far as I'm concerned, is what separates the good ones from the average ones. At that $350 mark, you could pick up a nice Cambridge Audio player from www.audioadvisor.com, or hit the used market. Personally, a CD player is just something I wouldn't buy used. As a matter of fact, it is the ONLY component I would never buy used -- especially off of eBay. If you go used, go to www.audiogon.com, where most from this site are prone to taking care of their equipment. However, I would ask a lot of questions regarding any used CD player. Cambridge Audio D-300 SE CD Player http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/products/CAMBD300SEa.jpg'> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Dean, I was simply useing vinyl as a comparison basis, you're right no cd player can match the characteristics of vinyl, but a good player can exhibit the qualities that vinyl brings about. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 On a CD player that old, the new DAC chips do make a very nice, possibly even quite significant difference. You might be able to add a $99 digital to analog converter for a little less money and get a nice improvement in sound. http://www.audioreview.com/DACs/California,Audio,Labs,Alpha-DAC/PRD_116813_2738crx.aspx Sometimes a little bit less is more. Driven by the unrelenting exposure of CD faults by my big old super-efficient Klipsch Cornwalls with their mid and high-range horns, I responded as quickly to a glowing www.soundstage.com review as a child offered ice cream. There was a low cost Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) for my Rotel 951 player. I jumped at the chance and ordered one from sensoryscience.com. I perceived differences as subtle as brands of ladies lipstick. In fact, the lipstick names from brand to brand have more distinction than the sound of the Gamma. But "little miss sensitive ears" pronounced the sound better, saying it "really takes the edge off" so the unit stays. Older analogue CDs especially are helped by the sheer veil the Gamma wraps around harsh recordings. Without the Gamma DAC, the sound on Palmer's "Johnny and Mary" is unrefined and raw. I "felt", rather than heard, that the better high end recordings, like the incredible presence on Diana Krall's re-mastered Stepping Out (Justintime, 2000) was NOT better. Maybe a different difference, perhaps, but not better. Without the DAC, I found discs to be more dynamic and sharp. The bass seemed better without it. The difference with the DAC is so subtle that I do not bother to go without it but once in a blue moon. These guys are right however, for a little more, you can go with SACD and since that may well be one of the common formats of the future (with more discs becoming available every day), that is the route I would go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I used to recommend the Cambridge Audio D500se for the price but several of the poor souls had bad reliability problems. These ALL from AA. I will put the Planet up against any of the Cambridge Audio units I have auditioned, this with the lastest DACs in the Cambridge players. Of course, the new price for a Planet is a lot more than the Cambridge machines. But a used Planet wins out sonically to me. Contrary to Dean, I have found some CD players get your closer to the liquidity of vinyl. This is a major selling point to me as it is one of my criticisms of even good digital. Digital does not have the resolution of top notch vinyl either. Once you hear it, you will understand. On the other hand, getting great sound from vinyl is a lot more difficult and time consuming, on all fronts. And I also have found that shopping by bits and DAC choice does not always bring sonic rewards. There is a lot more going on in a CD player than the DAC. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 John, What kind of music do you listen to? I'm curious after reading your review of the Eico. I really wish I could just hear a tube amp once and hear first hand what all the fuss is about. I too am looking for a new CD player to replace my broken 14 year old Denon (DCD 320 I think). I've been keeping an eye out for a Planet in the $350 range, pretty much based on stuff I've read here (especially from mh). Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I was thinking of focusing my funds on the vinyl playback vs CD given my current heavy weighting of records vs CDs. I've been simply using my DVD movie player for CD music. It would be ideal if I only needed one optical media player (DVD, DVD-A, SACD, CD). Is the $500 ELITE combo unit too big a compromise? There seem to be plenty of $1k combos coming out--would they provide performance across media? I'm in no hurry but eventually I want to upgrade my DVD movie picture quality and it would be nice to do the audio at the same time. I guess I'm at a holding point staring at a fork in the road. I've assembled one system for HT/DVD/CD/LP and I've come to the realization that I probably do want two systems as recommended here. HT: On the HT front I can sink money into a better DVD player, another pair of Heresys for surround, HDTV tuner and an SVS sub. A lot of extra cash considering I'm thrilled w/HT as is. 2-channel: For music I would like to pull my ST70 off the Outlaw, add a pre-amp like the Cary, and upgrade my Beogram TT & cartridge. I have more records than CDs (maybe 2,500 to 400) so I'd rather tweak the vinyl sound than the CD sound but eventually I assumed the Rega Planet would be a good addition. Any one purchase is affordable but when you start adding them up it becomes a concern. I guess I need to prioritize and space them out--maybe way out. I'm not sure I want to cut back on the audio parts (ie $200 preamp vs $700; $300 TT vs $800). I was thinking of getting the second pair of Heresys and then starting on the 2-channel: TT first then pre-amp (but then I'm not getting the full sound of my new ST70--an integrated amp might have been a better start). The SVS is nice but more for demos and showing off...I watch a lot of movies late at night and I just don't crank it up that often. In the end I'm enjoying what I have and trying to learn more and just mentally plotting a growth plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Probably the most common praise of SACD is that it doesn't sound digital. There are thousands of posts and reviews on the web comparing it to good vinyl (without the *many* limitations inherent in vinyl). You have a huge range in price for SACD players, sometimes $125ish on an open box close-out, up to maybe $7000-$8000 for some forthcoming ones. All SACD players will play CDs, so you're not losing the ability to play your old collection. But no CD players will play SACDs. So if you buy just a CD player, you are closing yourself off from some terrific SACD recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 KJ, Some of the SACD/DVD-A combos (Pioneer's at least) have a *very* compromised SACD side. It is processed with PCM and pretty much negates any benefit of SACD. So if you get a combo, make sure to read thorough reviews first. Personally, I don't think DVD-A has much of a chance of surviving, so I would not be at all concerned with having that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 THANKS! I don't want to buy a combo player only to find that the SACD isn't really up to snuff *AND* the CD playback isn't really as good as a $350 used Planet *AND* the video peformance isn't really that great either. The Video DVD players I've had recommended (Panasonic and Denon) only had DVD-A...which I don't perceive as good as SACD. I also perceive that mult-format is more the trend than one winning out over the other although longer term that may be the case...all speculation. The SONY $300 SACD/DVD player was very tempting but is it a compromise on all fronts? $300 I could jump now. $1K and I'll be talking about players for a few more months. I keep reading great reviews about $1k players which makes me think hold the line before jumping on the low price points. I also haven't bought a new CD player because I've been hoping I can apply those funds to the combo player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtice Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 John, What kind of music do you listen to? I'm curious after reading your review of the Eico. I really wish I could just hear a tube amp once and hear first hand what all the fuss is about. I too am looking for a new CD player to replace my broken 14 year old Denon (DCD 320 I think). I've been keeping an eye out for a Planet in the $350 range, pretty much based on stuff I've read here (especially from mh). Mace ---------------- Mace, I listen to a fairly wide range. Right now I'm in a classical phase. But I have a lot of pure blues, bluesy rock, folk rock, jazz, bluegrass--not too much that's less than 20-30 years old. Listened to Enya and soundtrack from Schindler's List today though. Schindler's List is John Williams with Itzhak Perlman violin solos--very nice. Listening to classical is what made me start looking at equipment again. Things like violin and piano solos really brought out the deficiencies. My Denon is model DCD-810. Amp is PMA-720. Hopng to find a set of Fortes, but now for the first time I know how good the Heresy's can sound and I'm going to be patient. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 A decent front end makes a damn big difference. I have owned a Rega Planet for 5 years and love it to this day. If you can get one used for the type of money you guys are talking about it would surely be a good buy. I've put a ton of miles on mine and it just keeps running like a top. That having been said, I recently had my first listen to a SACD player (a run of the mill Sony) and it sounded pretty damn good on normal CD's and flat-out spectacular on a new Rolling Stones SACD. On the sad day that my Planet dies, I'm going to check out SACD. The prices have come way, way down in the past few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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