Mallette Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 The M-Audio Revolution does both...encode and decode 24/96 5.1 or 2 channel. It does not support 24/196 2 channel, which is also part of the DVD-A specification. For that, you have to go the the WamiRack 192L. However, the 192L does not do surround. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Dave - Thanks. I know that my interjections here are quickly dragging down the IQ of this thread (LOL), but one more question. What would it take to play DVD-A on a PC then, besides the appropriate sound card. Will a regular PC DVD reader work as the transport, or is something more exotic needed? DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Plain ol DVD reader will work. However, an EAC that would extract hi res files to HDD would be better. Let me know if anyone finds one. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I guess noone saw my post from when this whole 24/96 posting stuff started. I mentioned that I've been using the WamiRack for a while with awesome results. I also posted a link to the egosys website. I'm not using it in the context that you guys would be but...It's in my home studio and I use it for making electronic/ambient/turntable music. In "my" sense it DOES do surround. I can record independent audio tracks panning to each 5.1/6.1/7.1 channel and using the proper software(Audio Logic) can mixdown to a proper multi channel mix. I'm not sure how other folks do that sort of thing since I'm completely self-taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 oOOOO. Tell me more.... I am lusting after the 192L, but skeptical at the price. Done any live recordings with it? What do you compare it with? I notice you have a very nice LP setup. How do LP transfers fare compared to the original? Speak to me! ...and you are correct...from the ESI website: DVD-Sound is Here! And ESI is high on the crest of the new wave. The WaMi Rack 192X goes beyond offering full compatibility with Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 surround formats and is ready to support DTS ES 6.1, and 7.1 new surround formats. Used with a software decoder such as the WinDVD Player the 192X transforms your PC into a full-blown 5.1 home theater system. WaMi Rack 192X also support true 192kHz/24-bit resolution for DVD Audio. This could be the best audio deal ever... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I've never incorporated it into my home audio system. I've only used it to transfer vinyl via my dj setup which consists of two Vestax PDT-5000 turntables. I prefer them over the classic Technics 1200s for mixing/scratching. I do not scratch with my Rega :-) I got the deal of the century on eBay almost 2 years ago(I have the orignal WamiRack) when a music shop in backwoods Kentucky listed it sealed in the box for $199 buy it now with free shipping! I have only used mics after they've gone through my mixing board so I can't vouch for the mic preamps. I have heard numerous complaints about the phantom power not quite pushing the 12volts that it's supposed to(although I'm sure that was remedied on the newer model since it was a widely known problem) so if you have some nice condencer mics you might wanna use a dedicated phantom power supply or use batteries. I've been nothing but happy with mine. The midi interface is just an additional bonus ta boot. I have tons of midi gear such as synths, drum machines & sound modules which get "triggered" by the WamiRack. The only thing I can complain about is the temperature it reaches. My GOD the top of this things can fry an egg. One of my cats puked on it and it dried to a crisp almost right away. I'm so lazy I just left it on there for aesthetic appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Never use condensors regardless of their reputation. Only ribbon mics for me, so the phantom power is no issue...only the SOUND. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Dave, What kind of ribbons do you use? I admit to only having some inexpensive AKG condesnors (CS1000s), and older dynamics (EV RE16), but they have fulfilled my needs so far. Had an acquaintance quite a few years ago who used a Beyer Ribbon for a live vocal my. It sounded just wonderful with her voice. I still want an 8 i/o for firewire, but the drivers/support for the Digi 896 under Windows is very bad, and the new Presonus Firestation says they only have XP drivers (I'm using Win2k). M-Audio sorta has released a 4 in firewire box, the M410, but it isn't on their web site although dealers have it advertised. Duh! Marvel ps I do music work with an ADAT XT20, although I am wanting to move soley over to a DAW based setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Here's some initial comments on the $99 M-Audio Revolution hooked up to an old Vectra VL PII/400 PC and my Outlaw 1050 AVR w/Dynaco ST-70 amp. Software: Exact Audio Copy (free) and MusicMatch player (free, but I have a <$50 lifetime upgrade to MusicMatch plus which provides recording and other features) The M-Audio Revolution card has turned my PC into a CD quality jukebox which I can quickly create playlists and compilation CDs (using a CD-RW). This is nothing new to mp3 fans but with the improved audio card and full CD quality recording I feel I'm not sacraficing audio quality for these features. Now for the harder part. I think what many here are interesed in is the audio quality vs a CD player. Can a PC be a substitute for a sub $1k CD player? If you forget about all the convience benefits and simply compare the CD playback of my M-Audio to my Toshiba DVD player using a digital cable to my Outlaw 1050 I would say the M-Audio does not provide a notable improvement. This is a good from the perspective that it does provide all the convience features w/o a notable change in sound, but it's not a cure for any complaints I might have with the sound from my DVD/Outlaw playback. Now 96/24 vinyl recording and playback is a different topic. The M-Audio card has a link and code to what I perceive is the 24/96 recording sw--MixMan Studio (full version) software which is currently not available (a $50 value). I typed in my email to be notified when the software would be available again. So for the moment I'm stuck with CD quality recording using my Nero sw from my burner or the MusicMatch Plus sw--neither are 24/96. The Perpetual Technology 24/96 interpolation and jitter removal technology still seems like the ideal digital sound solution but at just under $2k it's not really in my budget at this time. I'm looking forward to the Rega Planet and Card Deluxe testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 I use Beyer M 130N ©'s, and TBHWY, I've become convinced they may be responsible for the magic in my recordings. Like the experience you had, they seem to be just plain transparent with acoustic instruments and vocals. Unless you get into the classic vacuum tube Neumann's or Telefunkens ($$$$$$), I don't think condensors at any price compare for my uses. My prize is a 1936 RCA BK3A with which I made (IMOHO) the best piano recording I've ever heard. Sounds just like a PIANO for a change. The run from 3-10K on Ebay when they show up...there were only 600 made and about 200 left. I hope to someday own a pair of RCA 66DX's, which are about the same price as 'horns. I just moved to all DAW location work two jobs back with the MBS-3. It's awesome. Much less hassle having unlimited run time and not having to transfer. Plus I can burn a disc for the producer on the spot. My Sony DAT is on Ebay with mixed emotions. It's a truly superb unit that provided my entry into this fun (though distinctly unprofitable) business and I do not believe a better DAT was ever built. However, I need multitrack capability so I can spot mic harpsichords and pianos, and be able to mic choirs separately from the orchestra or organ. I hope to be able to raise enough money for the WamiRack 192L Dave Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 >The Perpetual Technology 24/96 interpolation and jitter removal technology... Is that all it does? Bear in mind there is no interpolation or jitter once you are in wav format, and no box at any price can match EAC's ability to do it over until it is done right. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 kjohnsonhp, Dowload the demo of CoolEdit Pro from the Syntrillium site. It is fully functional for 30 days, and will do 24/96. Many of the demos or other free ware stuff will not, even if the card will. Goldwave only lets you up the sample rate, but the bit depth stays the same. Lower priced versions of Quartz Audio do likewise. Dave, What is the MBS-3 (showing my ignorance again)? I have a Tascam DA-30 MKII dat that I really like. Can't tell there is anything between what I play and what I here back. I know people are dumping ADATs like crazy, but it's paid for and still works great. I don't use it enough is all. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 MBS-3 is my third generation digital analog audio server based on the Card Deluxe. I use it both as a home audio source and server, as well as location recorder. Using the toaster-sized Shuttle box, it's only about 8 lbs. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Thanks! I'll check out the software. I was impressed with Dave's Card Deluxe system and didn't reach for the volume control as with my DVD player. I don't seem to bet getting that same improvement with my Revolution solution...I need to do some blind testing in less of a rush. Unfortunately, I have to leave town tonight so I can't make the big Rega/Deluxe comparision. Dave, you can have my PC while I'm gone if interested for the test. I sure would be interested in the observations of others. I also wonder how much of a difference the cable between the sound card and the receiver makes? I think I should also note that I'm more focused on one aspect of my sound...others may be evaluating all aspects which would be more appropriate. I'm concerned that the high-end of my system makes the sound perceived as too loud..is this harshness? I don't know but I want to turn down the volume above 80db when loud passages of highs burst into the recording. When I was listening to Dave's card deluxe my first impression was that I didn't mind the loud passages like on my DVD player. Bottom line is that I like the PC jukebox and recording features, but I also want to upgrade my system to be more pleasing in the higher frequencies....there's lot's of detail but I wouldn't say the sound is sweet or smooth as I've read others describe the highs of speakers. This may need more than a PC card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Mixman Studio will not help you much. This program loads audio samples into "pods" or "sample tanks" onto 2 virtual turntables. You can then trigger them using either your keyboard or a midi trigger. It's kinda like a toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Then maybe I should search the software they did give me. I thought I read they there was some form of recording software with the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 Arghhh. Somehow I've not understood you wouldn't be here tomorrow. Is there anyway to get the PC here before you leave? Perhaps we can schedule for Spike to return with the Rega when you can be here. Just getting a baseline on Rega/Card Deluxe would be a good thing since you've already indicated (and your ears are better than mine in that area) that the CDeluxe is superior to the M-audio and your Toshiba. Drop it off if you have the time, otherwise we will muddle through the Rega/Card Deluxe comparison and maybe Spike can take a look at my poor Dynaco. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 It could be that particular M-Audio card (more of a consumer version, although higher numbers of sales can be good). There is a company in Vienna, that uses the M-Audio Super DAC for playback in its system they have for creating synphonic sample libraries. They had something like 30 engineers working around the clock to record, edit and build the libraries. You can get them preloaded on hard drives, but the cost is several thousand dollars. If you were an arranger doing movies sound tracks it would be so cool. The samples are really good. I know it sounds like I am defending them (yup, guess so). The card deluxe is a very good card, with good convertors on it, but you would certainly up the price. My Audiophile 2496 will pass DTS and whatnot through the spdif if I remember right, which could be fed into an external decoder. There's so many options and ways to empty the wallet! And I have to correct myself -- I mentioned digidesign as the maker of the 896 firewire box, but it is MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn), and the M-Audio firewire i/o 4 in/4 out, will be available sometime in April. It is a model 410, but no other designation yet. Just remember -- the good thing about standards is that there are so many of them. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 Hey, I don't find price the arbiter of what is good. If I can get the sound I want for less than the 380.00 price of CDeluxe, I'd be even happier than I was for getting it at that price, which is absurdly cheap for what it provides compared to stand alone CD players (as usual, IMOH and always open to correction O). As you may have noted, I am now trying to raise funds to purchase the WamiRack 192L, which is the same price as a CDeluxe that is limited in resolution by a math factor to it. Of course, that doesn't necessarily translate to better sound, but is is dern sure worthy of a shot at that price. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 Hey, I don't find price the arbiter of what is good. If I can get the sound I want for less than the 380.00 price of CDeluxe, I'd be even happier than I was for getting it at that price, which is absurdly cheap for what it provides compared to stand alone CD players (as usual, IMOH and always open to correction O). As you may have noted, I am now trying to raise funds to purchase the WamiRack 192L, which is the same price as a CDeluxe that is limited in resolution by a math factor to it. Of course, that doesn't necessarily translate to better sound, but is is dern sure worthy of a shot at that price. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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