BlueMonk Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Just starting to consider purchasing one of these machines and wondering if it is set for a VHS vrs Beta battle. Any opinions on if both formats will survive? Seems like there are more posts on DVD-A. Is this the better format? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 dont worry about it, this year many of the better machines will offer both formats in 1 machine, as far as sound, they are pretty equal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Yep,both formats are outstanding,get a multi player.There will be units at a couple hundred bucks soon.If you have a bigger budget the yamaha s2300 is nice,pioneer 45a,47ai,last but not least the Denon 2900 under 1k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 BlueMonk, I've bought 3 SACD players, and no DVD-A, so that tells you what I think! There is definitely a battle going on, but it is true that multi-players might make it that there is no clear victor. One real downside of at least some of the machines that play both formats is that they convert SACD into PCM before playing. This takes away most all of the advantage SACD has. So if you wind up buying a player that plays both, make sure it doesn't make this PCM conversion. And don't listen to a salesman about it because he won't know. Do the research on the internet. Anyway, on the DVD-A camp, you essentially have Warners. On the SACD camp, you essentially have everyone else. I realize there are numerous small companies that support DVD-A, but nowhere near as many as support SACD. If Warners decides to pull the plug, it is goodbye DVD-A. Sony and Philips are not giving up SACD no matter what. Neither format has sold many discs yet, relatively speaking to CD. But the Rolling Stones SACDs alone have sold something like 2 million units. All DVD-A titles together sold something like 600,000 units in 2002. The SACD release of Dark Side of the Moon coming out in a couple weeks is expected to sell half a million. The momentum is on SACD's side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbugz Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Paul, Please list your sources that state some lesser SACD players output via PCM. I am interested to read more about this. I know that the main difference between DVD-A and SACD is how the formats are recorded to the media. DVD-A uses the standard PCM where SACD uses supposedly "superior" DSD. Why a player would decode a SACD and output it as PCM is something I would like to get more information on. If true as you stated, this does seemingly defeat the purpose of SACD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 If you want to try sacd check your local best buy,mine has had a 5 disc sacd player for 100.00 for six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 just remember you get what you pay for, sometimes discount electronics are just that, discount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 The point is "why" would it be there six months with all the craze over sacd?Maybe there is no craze,they sell about 10 dvd-a players per week.I must say I like both,any improvement is ok by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpark Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 there are 3 popular formats out there: 1) SACD 2) DVD-Audio 3) DTS 5.1 here are the differences... 1) it's 20 bit audio (i don't remember the sampling rate) and it's multichannel 2) it's 24bit/96khz and two channel 3) 16bit/44.1khz (same as CDs) and it's also multichannel. now being that not all audio equipment is built the same Mister John Doe might not notice the difference between 24bit/96khz and 16bit/44.1 audio. what he will notice is the difference between 2 and 5.1 channels assuming, of course, has more than 2(not counting the sub) speakers. artificial surround sound schemes and the like don't hold a candle to real multichannel audio. as you can see, SACD is the superiour format. as someone stated earlier, it will become the beta vs vhs battle. it will come down to marketing and companies dumping $$$ into their format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 To answer question above, at least some of the Pioneer multi-format players do not really output an SACD signal--it is converted to PCM. This article talks about it a little: http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2003/sources/page_03.shtml Also, if you go to http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/bbs.html and use the search feature, type in "output PCM" or "Pioneer PCM" or something along those lines, you'll get hundreds of posts discussing which models do and which don't convert to PCM. If in doubt, don't buy a multi-player. If it is true SACD output, it should be emphasizing that feature. If it doesn't say anything, it is suspect until you can find out for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbugz Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Thanks for the links! I'll be sure to peruse through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMonk Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 Thanks for the info. What is PCM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 BlueMonk, PCM stands for Pulse Code Modulation, and is what is used in all normal CDs. You can run a search on Google.com to read up more on it. You'll probably find about 10 million pages! Remember, one neat thing multi-channel SACD has going for it is that in less than a week Dark Side of the Moon will be re-released on it. It's only $11.99 (plus tax) on pre-order at BestBuy.com, with free shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbugz Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Ahh! http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2003/sources/page_03.shtml "Implementing both SACD and DVD-Audio decoder chips in a single player usually catapults the retail price to the $1,000 mark or higher. So how can Pioneer electronics offer a universal player for under $200? Due out by mid-year, the companys new DV-563A progressive scan DVD-Video/Audio player can also play SACD discs by internally converting SACDs native DSD bitstream to PCM prior to D/A conversion and analog output. Although such a conversion will doubtless alarm SACD purists on principle, SMRs resident technical encyclopedia, Andre Yew, claims the crossover from one high resolution format to another is potentially facilitated by DSDs design: DSD was designed originally to archive Sony/Columbias recorded legacy, and to be easily decimated to any conceivable PCM sampling rate, so theyd just have to do one analog to digital conversion for their entire catalog, and then decimate appropriately as different PCM distribution methods came to market. Of course, whether Pioneers implementation decimates or preserves the audio quality of SACD sources remains to be heard. Whats in no doubt, however, is that the entry fee for a little toe dipping in both formats will get dramatically more affordable. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I know it's extra hassle, but everything I've read indicates that you can buy a quality SACD player and a separate quality DVD-A player for less money than a quality two-in-one single unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 I think there is a lot of price gouging going on. There is no justification for $1000-$1500 universal player prices. Only Pioneer's DV-45A is reasonable. It is around $500. If you read the test reports, notice how many of the combi-players do not have equal performance or processing flexibility with all formats. Some spec much better with SACD or DVD-A or CD. Also, analog bass management varies with format, as does time delay. And only the Pioneer DV-47Ai gives you a digital output for hi-res at an affordable price. (which also resolves the dsp problems: it performs full bass management and time delay on all formats, in the digital domain) Denon's top player also does this, but it is muey expensivo. So yes, right now, with the exception of the Pioneer DV-47Ai, you can probably get better performance for the money with two separate players; one for SACD/CD, and one for DVD-A. But, the Pioneer can be had on-line for under $800, so that would seem to be the obvious choice. Like has been said, I can't see Sony and Philips aborting SACD. Sony just does not do that. My gosh, they only recently pulled the plug on Betamax. So, they're tenacious! DVD-A's backers? I dunno. I believe they will both co-exist, with universal players becoming the norm, but long-term, I think at some point DVD-A may die. SACD does seem to be gaining momentum on the software side. Pretty shrewd marketing with the Stones discs. Most people are buying them not even aware they are SACD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Price-gouging--you've got that right! I believe some of these necessary chips are just a few dollars. And when you figure the chassis is shared, it seems like adding DVD-A or SACD to one format or the other ought to cost a hundred bucks, not a thousand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangdang Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 ---------------- On 3/18/2003 9:49:47 PM darkpark wrote: there are 3 popular formats out there: 1) SACD 2) DVD-Audio 3) DTS 5.1 here are the differences... 1) it's 20 bit audio (i don't remember the sampling rate) and it's multichannel 2) it's 24bit/96khz and two channel 3) 16bit/44.1khz (same as CDs) and it's also multichannel. ---------------- Are you saying DVD-A has no true multi-channel output? Are yu sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpark Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 i could be wrong. *grin* i probably am. i know that dvd-audio discs have also on them DTS and Dolby tracks. yeah, i F'd up here. i'm sorry. check this link out for some good info on dvd-audio: http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq/dvd-audio/faq_2.htm#What%20are%20the%20DVD-Audio%20Specifications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladi Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 DVD-A disk MAY contain all of the following: * Advanced resolution 2 channel * Advanced resolution multichannel (4.0, 5.0, 5.1) * Dolby Digital version of the above DVD-A that are labeled DTS do not contain advanced resolution layer. They are simply DTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.