snvhintz Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Thanks to all that replied to my question Yamaha or Denon. It's nice to hear from those that have experience in this field. This forum is priceless!!! I have learned alot from just reading past entries. As I stated in my previous note I'm having my right RP5 speaker fixed. (We were hit by lightning last fall. Knocked me out of bed!)So far they can find nothing that would cause the sub's amp fuse to blow. This only occurs when cable TV cable is hooked up to tv. We have switched tv's and all cables and wires. Had the cable company come out and check the line. It checked out just fine but they put another ground on just in case. Still the big WHAM! We thought the problem might be in the receiver.I have hooked up the left speaker only. No problem. Just to make sure the problem was not in the receiver I hooked up the right speaker(only) to the left outs. Wham again! It is so severe that it knocks the receiver into standby. Ouch!!! Have hooked the speaker and cable line to a surge protector. Same result. Will Klipsch's Magic box fix my problem? We did not have a problem before the lightning. Could the problem still be in the speaker sub or amp? We do not have problems with anything else in the house.Help!!!!! We have been without sound since last August!!!! PS. We have decided on replacing our Onkyo with the Denon-thanks again for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Have you had an electrician to check for any problems from lightning strike? Is it possible the electric box or wiring has a problem(not likely but possible)?This is a last resort after rechecking all connections,hooking up speakers,components,surge, all exactly as the instructions indicate.One final thought is most cheaper surge protects lose their ability to protect after a few strikes.Although they pass electricity,its not protected.Some newer ones are made to pass no electrical current after they lose their protect capability,its effectively all used up.These are just some thoughts,there's many possible reasons,Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Are you saying that you are trying to run the receiver with only one speaker connected to either the right or the left channel? If so, that is usually considered a No No. With no load on one of (or both) the channels, the receiver/amplifier will essentially try to deliver maximum output into nothing, thereby triggering protection circutry to shut the amp down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snvhintz Posted April 3, 2003 Author Share Posted April 3, 2003 I only tried hooking up the right speaker to check the output terminals on the receiver. I thought maybe something hinky was going on with the right output terminals on the receiver or possibly a problem with the left speaker line outputs. Not a good idea. Even tried right speaker with left out and left speaker with right out. Problem is still in the right speaker.What can I say... I'm green and don't know any better. I could not duplicate the problem in the left speaker which leads me to believe that something is going on in right speaker. I forgot to mention the receiver shuts down when all of the components are hooked up properly and the right speaker fuse blows. I have talked with so many techs ... every one of them is stumped. ugh. I must say I'm extremely frustrated. Not to mention gun shy when it comes to plugging in that speaker. The sound is frightening!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 your sub amplifier in that speaker was damaged by the lightning....the entire amp might have to be replaced.... another sad story that could have been prevented by a good surge protector... www.surgex.com www.brickwall.com www.zerosurge.com all three of those companies surge protectors would have prevented any damage and you would have a working system now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 "If so, that is usually considered a No No" disconnecting an output terminal from a reciever shouldn't necesarily be a bad thing because as far as the reciever is concerned, there is an infinite Ohm resistance when that happens...and we all know that driving higher ohms than rated is just fine on any amp. if however, somehow the hot terminals were able to transmit a signal to each other, then it would become a big No No based on the experiments you have done, it is definetly the speaker that's giving you problems. btw, congrats on your denon purchase! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 A cranked up unloaded output stage can create very high voltage inductive peaks (several thousand volts) sufficient to cause catastrophic arcing in tubes, destroy transistors, and in some cases, punch through the output transformer (when one is present) winding insulation... end of transformer. While a solid state amplifier MAY tolerate running with no load, a valve amplifier is almost certain to sustain damage to its output transformer if run without a speaker or dummy load connected. Sometimes a poorly designed amplifier will oscillate without a load. The electrical energy which is not converted into sound by a speaker is converted onto another form of energy--heat. This heat must be dissipated at two points: the voice coil of the speaker, and at the amplifier. Excessive heat at either point can cause damage to the sound system. If no voice coil (speaker load) is present, this heat can only be dissipated by the amplifier. If no thermal protection is present on the amplifier, and the amp cannot dissipate the heat, POOF! (Technically : With no load connected to an output transformer the transformer appears as a large inductor across the output stage and very large voltages may be produced which will cause transformer or output device breakdown). That being said, lightening is a very strange beast. It can find its way around into most anything. It sounds like in this instance the problem is with the speaker or its internal amp. I would get the receiver checked out too. And get yourself some surge protection. Ground your system at only one location, preferably the main power outlet, and float all the rest of the grounds so that the system grounds seek their own level. This will avoid the possibility of ground loops (hum & noise) or multiple ground paths (paths of least resistance) for something like lightening to find its way through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Yes, that is not recomended. The channel can idle with no input and no speaker connected, but if it has input it should have a load. Chuck Hinton of McIntosh Tech Support "McIntosh Support" 04/07/03 08:56 AM Please respond to customercare To: cc: Subject: FW: Message from Customer Care... Subject: Ask An Expert first_name: Art last_name: email: artto country: zip: daytime_phone: evening_phone: time_to_call: request_info: Can an amplifier be damaged by running an input signal into it with no load (speaker or otherwise) attached to the outputs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 all i gotta say is i've been mixing for 10 years for a band that tours throughout the year...i am frequently in the practice of unplugging the speaker cables from the outputs on the amps with a loaded input. nothing has broke because it's an "infinite" load (or watever the resistance of air is), not a zero load like you're talking about. a load of "zero" would be like connecting the positive terminal directly to the negative terminal and of course the amp would go poof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Oh yeah? Well the fact is most "tour groups" use amplification like Crown or QSC. Those amps are first & formost designed to be as "customer proof" as possible, as one engineer from Crown told me. Hell, you can take a Crown DC300A & use it for welding if you want (in fact, some people do). Try running a tube amp or any amp with an output transformer while driving the input with no load (no speaker) connected & see what happens. I DARE YA. only a matter of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 "customer proof" hehe ya, we're running crowns they're beasts, we even dropped our amp rack outta the van once...(long story) ya, im not big into the tube thing...but i think solid state should be fine. i'm trying to think of the physics of it; no current flow means no heat, right? does stuff move around even without the circuit completed? to me that just makes no sense, but hey im willing to learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Hey. Do what you like. I gave enough info. And a major well-known audio manufacturer's technical support engineer agrees. The fact of the matter is there's a "right" way, & then there's the "other" ways. The "right" way, IMO, is the "safe way". And the safe way is to turn down the input signal to zero before disconnecting/reconnecting speakers or interconnects. The "other way", is to do whatever you want & take your chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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