LFE Setting for KSW12

[t-man]

To be honest, I don't know what internally summed means. I thought it means that the output level is summed by the amount of input connections. In my case, using both L & R inputs, as well as speaker wire produced by far the MOST volume.

T-man

[boa12]

yea t-bird i wonder 2. i've tried to get schematics on like the rp-5 w/ no success.

i always thought internal summing actually attentuates(decreases) another input load to match another rather than getting an increase

in output by adding more input connections (like apparent w/ the ksw).

anyone?

[Domain]

bacevedo,

I spent more then a few hours last night adjusting the speaker levels, and ended up trying to get a average of 0db (mains are a little lower, surrounds a little higher). The results are very positive... its interesting on the Denon's level control, as the level decreases, it seems to have more impact on the higher frequencies then anything else, giving them a "suppressed" or "muddy" sound.

Then, I left the Sub level at 0db, not bothering to measure it. Instead I decided to put in my favorite CD, cranked the bass up too loud, then adjusted downward from there. After a few hours of playing with it, I finally found the right level so that it "blended" with the mains. (Its funny, I used to like big boomy bass, but after this new system, I tend to prefer a bass that doesn't call attention to itself)

Once those adjustments were made, I decided to try measuring it with the Denon's test tone... it was marginally higher then it should be, so I left it alone. Then I dropped in U-571, and the bass wasn't too overpowering, though it was probably a little higher then the "correct" level. I might spend some time with the LFE level on the Denon to correct this when I find the time.

t-man,

I've read your previous posts regarding your experiences with the Denon / KSW, and i'm defintately going to experiment with the Speaker Level vs Sub Out (though probably not until I finish moving).

Now, its my understanding that if you set the Mains to Large, Sub to Off, then all bass information, including LFE will be sent to the mains? What about setting Mains to Large, Sub On (LFE ONLY) and just connecting the LFE Input?

Well anyhow back to work,

Domain

[bacevedo]

Domain,

I am glad to hear that playing with the level controls helped the problem. I don't know much about the Denon level setting and what they do when you adjust the levels - I just know that I didn't like turning my speakers to -7! I know that there are some differences between the sound of the synergy and the reference series, but I can't think that they are as much as you were saying (by your speakers being muddy). I figured it was just a speaker position problem or a level problem.

I, too, am still fiddling with the "correct" setting for my sub. I like it a little higher on music, but when I put in my Dolby Digital Trailer DVD, it just seems way too overpowering. That is how I came up with just turning down the LFE signal only, and leaving the sub setting where it is (and the whole reason I posted this thread). I don't need the LFE to play 10db higher, the bass is already loud enough as it is - I want clean bass, not just loud bass. I feel that LFE at +10db was just distorting more than adding to the impact, so I trimmed it back to about -7 (so it will play 3db louder). So far so good, but as always in audio, I am sure I will keep tweaking!

------------------

Thanks,

Bryan

[t-man]

Domain,

Your assumption is correct. In regards to LFE...I would never hook up a sub for LFE only. That is a waste of a sub. The sub needs all the bass. Not just LFE.

T-man

[Domain]

t-man,

Errr, reading back in my last post, I didn't make the last part very clear.

When I said Mains to Large, Sub On (LFE ONLY) and just connecting the LFE Input, I meant doing that while it was running at speaker level. Sorry for the confusion.

Domain

[BLOOMIS914]

To all FWIW:

I am running two subs in my system:

KSW-15 front sub is using LFE out from Marantz SR-8000 to Y-splitter and L/R sub inputs. In addition, I am running speaker cable from my Marantz speaker A R/L mains to speaker level inputs on KSW-15. Speaker wire is running parallel to second set of wire feeding my KLF-30's (Mains)

KSW-100 Rear sub is using LFE out from Rear Sub out on Marantz to Y-splitter and then to R/L inputs on KSW-100. In addition, I am running speaker level inputs to the KSW-100 from the Marantz Rear speaker outputs. This is in addition to the speaker wire running to my rear KSP-S6's.

The bass is incredible in my system. There is no added load on Amp or sub with this hookup as I understand it. Running additional speaker wire from mains and rears to ksw-15 and ksw-100 draws very little current as the Powered subs are doing the work.

I don't fully understand why this produces the best bass but it will and does for me now for 9 months and I run my KSW-15 front sub at 40-45 Hz and a volume of 8 and the rear KSW-100 rear sub at 6 at a X-over of around 70 Hz. Any more on the volume knob and its TOO LOUD and boomy.

I ran the speaker level inputs in addition to th LFE/sub out signal because my Marantz will not send a sub out signal in 2 ch stereo via the LFE output, and I enjoy the added punch in both 2 ch and 5ch stereo that 2 subs add.

I would recommend this setup to anyone struggling with sub output. My KSW-100, basically the older KSW-10, hits hard as hell at a volume level of 6-7 at 70 Hz.

My Ksw-15 is in the center of front wall between KLF-30's and the KSw-100 is in rear left corner.

My system:

KLF-30's

KLF-C7

KSP-S6's

KSw-15 front sub

KSW-100 rear sub

Marantz Sr-8000

Toshiba SD-4205 5-DVD changer

Mitsu VCR

35" Mitsu TV

Pioneer 301 CD Changer

Monstercable 14 Gauge in Wall Cl3 wire

Niles wall plates

[Domain]

Bloomis,

Thanks for sharing your setup information, its always interesting to see how others are doing things.

Not to bother you with questions, but I'm not familiar with how the Marantz handles bass management, so would you mind if I ask a few questions?

You said the LFE out (front) doesn't send signal in 2 channel mode... but in all other DSP modes it sends a "normal" sub out signal (everything including LFE)?

If I run speaker level, I don't think I could get around using the KSW-12 as the high pass filter for the mains (The SF-1's aren't quite as potent as those Legends of yours ). If your reciever is sending a full signal when not in 2 channel via the LFE, then I would assume it would be the same as running Sub On (LFE + Main's) on my Denon...

Do you notice a increase in Bass Output in other DSP modes vs 2 channel (assuming the LFE is putting out a "full" signal in all the other modes)? (Just curious about the "summing" of inputs that was talked about earlier).

Thanks,

Domain