KLF-10 as custom built center?

[Craig6519]

4497, I'm interested in how you came to wanting/needing to port the speaker when your finished. I know that the KLF-10 is rear ported however the C-7 is not, I really don't know what would be the best way. Any more info from you would also be greatly appreciated. Like i said before and i agree with you, I'm not gonna be out much if the speak doesn't work but again like you said imagine the center i will have if it does!!

Craig

[boa12]

craig, the cups are to shield the speaker magnets. probably more on the sides than the bucks do.

[T2K]

Craig6519, why not build a big cabinet and use it as a TV stand? You could build separate chambers and include two 12" or 15" sub speakers ala M&K! Go for it,and good luck

to you!

Keith

[4977]

Craig,

I bought a sheet of 3/4" plywood and a sheet of 3/4" MDF this evening. Since I have two KG 5.5 I am going to build two centers channel speakers. I think I will use dual 2" ports on the first one and see what happens. I will let you know the results.

Q.

[Craig6519]

TTK, Thats a thought but don't have the space for a stand. 4977, I guess I'll wait and see how yours turn out as your going to be building two. By the way how big are the drivers on the 5.5's?

Craig

[4977]

Craig,

The woofers are 10" and the tweeters are about the same size as the KLF 10 also. In fact the KG 5.5's are very close in overall size to the KLF 10's.

Q.

[Craig6519]

We'll 4977 I guess we are pretty much looking at building the same size center. Are you planning to set it up in the same layout as the C7? Puttting the Horn vertically or horizontally? Or maybe like decmel man putting by itself on top.

Craig

[decibel man]

I think you guys have created one of the hottest strands since the "14 new products" strand. As far as tuning the box goes, I bought a paperback book on "box building" when I built my workshop speakers. It might as well of been in french. I am pretty good at math and I have a pretty good understanding of basic acoustics, but this thing was for audio engineers only. So I winged it, and copied the measurements off of the the RB-5 and even bought a pair of ports from Klipch that they use in the RB-5's. From what I have read there are a lot of important variables in just porting; diameter, flared, length and whether or not you smooth out any sharp edges. It was a rather mind boggling experience. I got some of the parts and tweeters from www.Partsexpress.com in Dayton, OH. I had the chance to actually go in and talk to them about a few things before I bought when I went down to Dayton on business.

Craig, I would still consider putting the tweeter in a seperate section. That horn is a lot wider than it is tall, so if you put it between the woofers the cabinet would be pretty big. I would think you would want to stay close the the same amount of cubic space as the KLF-10 has. That way you are using a size setup that is close to what Klipsch had originally used.

I have to go for the weekend I am getting yelled at by the wife. This stuff must not be important to her. Surprise!

Good luck!

JT

[4977]

I have 1 speaker finished to the point that I can listen to it. This is the 1 I made out of MDF. I built the cabinet to the same dimensions as the original KG 5.5. I placed the tweeter horizontally between the two woofers. I placed the factory KG 5.5 port panel, As close to exactly in the center as I could get it. The thing sounds great. I first listened to it alone in pro-logic with the soundtrack from Midnight In The Garden Of Good And Evil. Vocals were very detailed, the pianos sound like they are in the room with me, the highs are very crisp, and the bas is great. Next I listened to Dave Grusin: Homage To The Duke. Same as Above only more of everything good. I then cued up The Perfect Storm On the DVD player. I went to the Helicopter rescue scenes. The helicopter fly-bys blended perfectly with my KLF-20's And of course There was plenty of low end action coming from every where (I had my sub turned off and didn't miss it.) As it stands right now I am very happy with this center channel. I would appreciate any advice on painting MDF. I am thinking about putting a couple of coats of primer on and the using semi gloss black.

Craig, as far as the placement of the tweeter, I installed it horizontally because I was advised that it would probably work best like that. I have to say it works pretty darn well that way. I went with the factory port because I wanted to keep the box as close as I could to the original specs. Also keep in mind that the Klipsch tech. service rep. Felt that the tweeter's Voice coil should be on the same plane as the woofers. I am inclined to agree 100% at this point. I am going to wait until I have this speaker totally finished before I start on the second one but at this point I don't think I will change anything.

Q.

[HornEd]

Congratulations Q!!! You had the guts and the sense to do it up right. Before I found my C-7, I was planning to rebuild one of my KLF 10's into a center channel. You proved that with the right kind of audacity and the sense to use Klipsch engineering in the sensitive areas... and some deft cabinet building ability... one can even build a better speaker than they anticipated. Now, do us all a favor and write down what you did and what went into your decisions and make it available on the 'net. From what I can see, you have had a class act from beginning to end. I hope you made photos of some of the interim steps... and publish a finished photo here ASAP. Meanwhile, rack it up and have a ball-Q! HornEd

[igor1]

craig6519,

I have also heard the 5.5 center of 4977. It is AWESOME. I also expect it or its twin to

to sound equally good with my Forte 2s.

[Craig6519]

Congratulations 4977, Sounds like a killer center. I went to do some more measurements of the KLF-10 this morning and theres no way that I'd be anle to build the cabinet to the same dimensions as the 10, especially the depth and length. I could build it in the same layout design as the C7 however all the drivers would have to be a lot closer together and in a smaller cabinet due to the fact that it has to fit in my wall unit and my wife won't compromise.

Craig

[RossVTaylor]

Craig and Mr. Q (4977)Craig,

Several posts above, Q. mentioned that he put a couple of woofers on his RPTV and didn't have any troubles. Because the guns in an RPTV are at the bottom of the set, even an unshielded center speaker shouldn't pose a problem. Craig's equipment list shows he's using a Hitachi tube TV - that one might very well be affected by unshielded magnets. Craig, before you spend the bucks on bucking magnets (pun only mildly intended) you should try out your speaker and see if it affects your TV. If you plan on changing to a RPTV or FPTV in the near future, I wouldn't spend the money on shielding right now. For an interim measure, you might try a plate of sheet metal (ACE Hardware has a selection in appropriate sizes) between your speaker and TV - if it works, it's a cheap fix. If not, you can take it back (since you won't have to cut it).

While the C7's a great center channel, there's a lot to be said for three identical front speaksrs. Best of luck on your project!

Ross

[RossVTaylor]

Holy double posts, Batman!

(I couldn't delete a double post, so you get this witty interlude... we now return you to the thread)

[4977]

HornEd,

Thanks for the kind words. I did not think about taking photos this time but I may try to on the second one. As far as deft cabinet building ability goes, I just built a very basic box, nothing fancy. the steps I took were also minimal. My main goal was not to change the box any more than necessary. With that in mind I tried to maintain the internal dimensions of the box. I decided based on the info available from Klipsch to leave the horn horizontally mounted. This made rear porting mandatory as there was no linger space in the front. I originally intended to try 2 ports on opposite ends of the cabinet. But sticking to the plan of not changing anything I didn't have to I stuck with the original port. I decided to mount it in the center of the cabinet so that it would be an equal distance from each woofer. I have no idea if this is the correct way to do it, just seemed like a good idea at the time. I added some internal bracing along the longest joints inside the box. I figure its probably a good idea to back up the glue that I used on those joints at the minimum. I also decided to use all 4 pieces of foam from both KG 5.5's in this speaker. This way I have just about the entire interior of the box lined. So far this has been a lot of fun. I am at a stopping point on finishing due to weather. I live in an apartment so I only have my patio area to work in. If I haven't provided all the details you asked for let me know amd I be glad to add more.

Thanks, Q.

[HornEd]

Thank-Q for all of us who like to push envelopes and turn scratch & dent bargains into unique treasures. I am sure that Craig will agree that putting action to dream scenarios is well worth the time and expense... after all, that's entertainment... and the sound you may get is just a wonderful bonus.

Q,your added info hit the spot... and brings to mind Craig's potential to use his existing cabinet (refinished to eliminate the scratches and buy a new grill) and just juxtapose the two 10" woofers on either side of the rotated horn and be done with it! While there is a potential that the port may be a problem, it would not be a big gamble to put it to the ultimate test... by listening to "reality" before you get too much sawdust on the floor following will-o-the-wispy-woofer speculation.

Laying a KLF 10 on its side creates a cabinet that is just 1.25" taller than a KLF C-7 and a bit over a foot wider... and with a large RPHD there is plenty of room and little to fear from a lack of shielding. But, once I had the cabinet open, I would likely follow the idea of putting a sheet of galvanized metal (after testing as above) as a cost-effective minimal precaution.

One of the best set of speakers I ever left with an ex-wife were hand built by a priest who attempted to stay within his vows of poverty by building a replica JBL horn loaded corner cabinet. The cabinet was beautifully done... except the front grill frame and material was designed to look tacky. But, to his bishop's ear, the genuine JBL dual 15" woofers, horn and x-over broke the poverty barrier even if the grill didn't.

Since then I have searched in vein for another clever Jesuit with a penchant for K-horns and a bishop with the good grace to let him finish the project

But, I would settle for another KLF 10 and an opportunity to build a matching center... even if it didn't beat the C-7. How better to build an even deeper appreciation for PWK and the Wizards of Hope.

------------------

"Klipsch by the Dozen"

Front Six Pack:

KLF 30's R&L + KLF C-7

KSW-15 Sub, SB-2 Effects

Rear Six Pack:

KLF 10 thru KSW-12 L/C/R

Speaker Support Systems:

Mitsubishi RPHD1080 65"

Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

Happy Ears x2!

[Craig6519]

I'd like to Thank everybody for there inputs since I started this thread, But while I was trying to figure out how to do this I let the speaker slip through my fingers. I went back to the store today to pick it up and it was sold. Well at least now I have a little more insight into how to do this if the opportunity ever pops up again.

Thanks Again for all your inputs

Craig

[Steve Phillips]

Craig,sorry to hear that.

But just to let you know something;The 30 and 20 used the same 90x40 exponential,same driver(K-79-K).

The C-7 and 10 used the 90x60 Tractix,C-7 used the K-90-KV and 10 used the K-100-K tweeter.

They weren't exactly the same,but would have made a great center.I'd have used the port also and in the center below the tweeter,but only if the cu.ft.were the same.Port tuning problems.If you could port the C-7 it might(I say might) go lower,but not designed for that.

Maybe one day you will find a single 20 or 30,they would be a perfict match.

My Heresy center was never a perfict match till I found a Klipschorn mid horn(sqauwker) and used a K-Horn AA network,perfict now.I wanted to use 2 Heresy woofers and build a MONSTER center,but................

[decibel man]

4977, you had asked about primer earlier. I used several coats of sandable primer and sanded each one to make it ultra smooth. You may be able to buy Black Ash vinyl veneer from www.partsexpress.com or some other speaker building supply store. The veneer would have a little wood grain to it. I painted mine white to match the walls in my garage/wookshop. It is also an easy color to hide any small mistakes. I am glad everything is turning out okay for you.

Craig, I am sorry to hear you missed that KLF-10. You may get lucky with ebay or another dealer (with clumsy warehouse guys).

Good luck and happy listening!

JT

[HornEd]

Ah, Craig, such "treasure" found on the trash heaps of commerce rarely wait for opportune times. I am sorry to hear of your loss and hope the lone 10 finds a happy end. Maybe the new owner may have your foresight and relate his fortune on this board.

In any event, you have sparked some serious thoughts in a lot of us.

From what I understand, it is no picnic to build a superlative center and the C-7 (which you and I now enjoy) is one of the finest I have ever encountered. That having been said... I must continue to note that the C-7 seems to have been designed to complement more than our 30's... and, thus, the lure of a giant center remains attractive.

I have put a bid in on a pair of new KLF 30's and am tempted to turn one of my older ones into a center... since it is beginning to give me some "air leak rattling" sounds at a fortunately rare frequency. Suddenly, the right KLF 30 becomes a wind instrument that interprets a tense moment explosion as a loud report from "Blazing Saddles!"

Then again, perhaps I should let well enough alone for the C-7 probably handles the dialogue/background sound situation better than a modified KLF 30 on its side.

May opportunity knock up another box for you to open... or at least pass on to a fellow board buddy.

If the new "speakeasy&accurate" Klipsch line is as wonderful as BobG suggests, we may all be trading in our old boxes and significant others to bath in the sonic aura of Hope. HornEd