Toxic Mule Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Hi Guys! I was wondering how these subs stack up against each other. I know that few may have experienced the pb2-plus since they are on pre-order, but it does use 2 plus drivers which many have experienced. How much better is the ultra driver compared to the plus(both similar in price...1 ultra v pb2-plus). Over the weekend I got to hear the sunfire mark IV, I still cant believe how small it is and how well it performs(they didnt have a sunfire signature). My main concern is use with movies, and those sound effects which produce low bass that can be felt. This is a great forum, and i appreciate anyones input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaZero Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I myself have the sunfire signature, and I can whole heartly say this is the single most powerful "micro" subwoofer in thr world..matching a lot of the big boys down to 20hz. In my living room, my tests conclude a peak output of 119db at around 30hz and at 20hz its still pulling a wonderful 106db. Once we roll around the 18hz area..then it starts to roll off volume wise. For smaller rooms or even medium the signaure should be good for 80% of people down to i'd say 17-18hz area. A single Ultra is much bigger, and will provide equal output, a sunfire will match it at all but the lowest frequency spectrums. The B2 is another story, this is a monster that will drop down lower then the above two and be louder about it..and for the price, it cannot be matched unless you make say your own DIY subwoofer or something. Anyway you look at it, any of these subs will crunch bone and drop low..as they are real subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The Sunfire will have a hell of a time keeping up with an Ultra if THD limits are applied (especially in the last octave). The B2 is tuned to 25hz with all ports open. It isn't a bottom dweller but will provide solid output down to the low 20hz range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Toxic Mule, The Sunfire Signature is much more capable then the Mark II or Mark IV subs,I have these and I can put a certification on the Sig for monster deep bass shake. One Sunfire Signature can provide hellacious bass for HT use,its all the sub 99% of heavy HT users will ever need. Also THD means bull down low,as human ears are not very sensitive to deep bass THD.I say let the customer decide in a A/B comparo test.Not just read measured performance...THD THD THD. THD is all Sunfire competitors can find to falut the Signature,is big blah blah for not much in the end. The Sunfire Signature is very celan all besides the very deepest reaches where not much information resides. A single Sunfire Signature can keep up quite well with an Ultra in all respects besides extreme low bass. Experience here,not parrot talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Hoffman's Iron law is a ***** I now Ears, but face it, a Sunfire Sig can't compete with an Ultra. I've seen a few reviews where people preferred the original 20-39CS to a Sunfire Sig little lone an Ultra. THD rarely manifests itself without harmonics. Loads of THD down around 20hz will mean plenty of THD at 40 and 80 hz as well. There is a reason people are saying what they are about Adire's XBL^2 drivers. They produce extremely low THD levels. It does make a difference. And with the cost of a Sunfire Sig I'd much rather have Rutledge Audio or Acoustic Visions build me a slightly larger sealed Tumult (well I'd just build it myself, but for those that can't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaZero Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I've heard both and a Sunfire Signature will trade blows with an Ultra down to 20hz and then start to give up to the ultra at around 19-18hz. However it is not far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 "I've seen a few reviews where people preferred the original 20-39CS" I've seen many reviews where people preffered a Sony WM40 over most subs.LOL SO WHAT some prefer A over B Lets go with some numbers at 30Hz,will ya.The CS woofer is not capable of moving as much air as the Sunfire SIg. woofer.The Sig.woofer and its PR move more air then the CS woofer and its port. Since the CS can be tuned very low it will ouperform the Sig down very deep,but at 30Hz the Signature will own the CS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Mule Posted May 24, 2003 Author Share Posted May 24, 2003 Tks for the responses. I need to audition a sunfire signature. With its size, I could easily fit it into my room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Well enjoy the Sig then Ears, I know I'd never buy one. I'll take a PC+, Tumult or the Tempest based sub I do have any day, even if cost wasn't an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 I really like my Sunfire Signature. I'm using it with Klipschorns and LaScalas in my home theater. I never even know that it is on, untill I turn it off and then hear what I'm missing. I think it blends in well with Klipschorns. I can't leave well enough alone, I am about to order an SVS B4 Plus with the crown amp. I think I can just use my Outlaw ICBM bass manager to dial in the frequencies fed to it from each speaker. The ICBM should also serve as the volume control for the Crown amp. I hope this works. I wouldn't hesitate about recommending the Signature to anyone. Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 "Well enjoy the Sig then Ears, I know I'd never buy one." Your choice,yes I edited out the venom.Arguing with beefshouldbefree is like arguing with a wall. Q-Man, Well said the Signature is a great subwoofer,it has great output and its size make it very practical,unlike some grotesque DIY monsters. As I sai and say it again listen and compare,reading drunk rants and raves is only good for lazy deaf buyers. On an ending note The Signature competes with much larger subs,like it or not.THD abobe 25Hz is low and not a real issue.Unless you like to suffer from theb placebo effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 I just stumbled onto this thread. I had an opportunity to pick up a 1 week demo Sunfire Signature from a local Hi-Fi shop for ~$1200 with full factory warranty. The Signature is absolutely amazing in my HT. It simply blows me away...it may not be a certified "bottom dweller" but is has filled my needs with ease. I'll not be getting rid of this baby. If I ever find another in this price range I'll grab it to try in my 2 channel rig with my K-horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 edster00, Wisdom is clear in your posts,leave hype and "reviews" aside and just listen. For $1200 a SUnfire Signature is the real deal and a steal,for HT use I dont know anyone(including Dustin)who could say its weak or distorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 I'll say it distorts, and Nousaine's measurements prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 "I'll say it distorts, and Nousaine's measurements prove it." All subwoofers distort,sound reproduction with no distortion does not exist. Nousaine measurments only prove THD,not much else.You have a severe THD fixation. You have mass market amps with 0.05% THD and PassLabs with less then 1% THD so going with your thinking PassAleph is no good and mass market is more musical and superior. In a lab maybe Wanna argue,lets go.I have a few more hours to spare before I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 edsteroo, If you want mine, you can have it for $1,200.00. It just came back from the factory for an upgrade and new driver. They installed an anti clipping circuit and some diodes and some other things that I can't make out on the receipt. Paper work to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Q-Man, I should have said if I find another in this price range and have the money...I am saving up for a new pair of Horus mono-blocks right now, and just do't have the funds available. Thanks for the offer! Were you having problems with the Sunfire? What prompted you to send it to the factory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 One day when Mike Lindsey came over we were really pushing the limits for about an hour. I mean some heavy bass material and the rat meter was at 110 db. To hit 110db in my home theater room the meters on my McIntosh amp are a steady 30 to 40 watts and are peaking at 200 watts. The Sunfire had to keep up with 4 Klipschorns and 6 LaScalas. As an example; it only takes about 5 watts to drive one pair of Klipschorns to that level in my 16' x 20' room. Anyway, I heard a God awful noise coming from the Sunfire. I blew the driver. Sunfire was great, they didn't charge me hardly nothing to replace the driver. Then they called me and said that they would update it for free. My kids came into the room after this happened and reminded me that I was doing exactly what I told them never to do. Can't win! That is why I'm almost convinced to go for the B4-Plus for this room. I was emailed from an over seas member who may want the Sunfire. I'm in no hurry and he is talking about doing something around summers end. By the way, how do you like your McIntosh CD and DVD player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Q-Man, I love both of the Mac players. The MCD 7007 we made from the late 80's to early 90's but it sounds wonderful even if it is only using 16 bit processing. I bought the MVP-841 when I moved a Sony S9000ES player upstairs into my HT rig. It is also a great performer, I will probably try to replace the -841it with a -851 at some point in time to get progressive scan back for the downstairs TV, but it in not a high priority at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 "The Sunfire had to keep up with 4 Klipschorns and 6 LaScalas." Even when blasting full tilt I never had any issues with any of my Sunfire subs.I I pushed them to their limits.Your unit must have had a weak part. For four mighty K-Horn and six LaScala you NEED a SVS B4-Plus or quad SVS Ultra/SS.Or build a dual Tumult sub.Good God 4 K-Horns and 6 LaScala Four mighty TC Sounds woofers have to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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