ChrisK Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 This was posted over at the Vinyl Asylum - "I thought people in the vinyl group might want to know about this group event. The Southern California Horn Loudspeaker Group will be having a meeting featuring an LP listening session and a talk by Bill Firebaugh, inventor of the Well Tempered TT and Tonearm. The session starts at 1pm on Sat. June 28th at Edgarhorn, 18235 Figueroa, Gardena, CA 90248. Email me at bedgar@socal.rr.com or call 310-630-1621 for directions. Everyone is invited. Bruce" All are welcome. If you'd like, you can bring some soda, chips, dip or something similar. Andy?, Allan? Can you guys make it? Sounds like a great time. If for nothing else, the music will be incredible. Allan, maybe you could bring a couple of your West Coast Smithsonian Museum of Jazz records along to put Dr. Edgar's rig through it's paces. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 I might be able to attend! I can bring four or five along from the vault. Any requests? Art Pepper? Sonny Clark? Sonny Rollins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 I'll do my best to be there...I've been looking forward to this! Thanks for posting this here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 21, 2003 Author Share Posted June 21, 2003 Allan, I sure hope you make it. Bring whatever you think will sound good. I'm real curious to hear some of those legendary original pressings. Andy, I think it's possible the Doc put this together partially due to our interest in vinyl. Maybe not, but I have been bugging him for awhile now. I can't wait to hear the Titans and Seismic blast out some vinyl tunes. Hope to see you there. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 I would love to have an A/B of vinyl and his Rega Planet through his setup (the Edgarhorns and Cy Brenneman amps). A blind A/B. But the vinyl would have to be very clean, otherwise the dust pops would give it away. I did an A/B with a Yes CD and Record and heard virtually no difference and my son with 19 year young ears concurred. Now my TT is a cheapie, but so is my CD player (the Pioneer). Maybe with better equipment it might be more noticable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I will be there. And I'm bringing a handful of those "original pressings." I sure hope Dr. Bruce has a "mono" switch on his preamp! I'll bring along at least a couple of Stereo LPs too, just in case . . . How's this? Hank Mobley "Soul Station" Louis Smith "Smithville" (been playing this one A LOT lately) Jimmy Smith "Back at the Chicken Shack" Larry Young "Into Somethin'" Art Pepper "Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section" Sonny Rollins "Way Out West" Baby Face Willette "Face to Face" Sonny Clark "Cool Struttin'" Jackie McLean "Let Freedom Ring" "John Coltrane with the Red Garland Trio" Red Garland "All Mornin' Long" Walter Davis Jr. "Davis Cup" Better Stop!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Allan, Your list looks great! Last time I saw the Doc (about 3 months ago) he was still using Cyrus Brenneman tube gear. Not sure about mono. But, he sent me an email this weekend mentioning a phono stage that Cy built. Also I believe we'll be using his Well Tempered TT. He also asked me to bring a few of my "audiophile reissues". Should I bring my reissue copies of Soul Station, Cool Struttin or Way Out West to compare? For sure I am going to bring the 45rpm reissues from Acoustic Sounds new series. So far I have - Miles Davis, "Relaxin'" Bill Evans, "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" Duke Ellington, "Dukes Big Four" Ben Webster, "At the Renaissance" Count Basie, "88 Basie Street" Willie Dixon & Memphis Slim, "Willie's Blues" I'm guessing possibly as many as none of my records will get listened to. But, what the heck. Last time most of the listening was done after the keynote speaker and lasted well into the evening. (I left early into the listening session. - I think Andy may have stayed quite awhile longer.) Regards, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Sure, bring along the reissues. It would be fun to compare. I've got to leave no later than 5PM. I'm going to hear Jimmy Smith at Catalina's on Sat night. I hope we can ge some listening in before I have to leave . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 How's this for muddying the water: Saturday my son had a friend over and I dragged out some more vinyl and found I had Allan Parson's I Robot on vinyl in an Original Master Recording as well as the CD. I put both on and played them through the Marantz 2270 as it has a somewhat more quiet phono section. We did an A/B without him knowing which is which and he chose (with 20 year young ears) the vinyl saying it was "clearer". Now I must say that this time I heard what I think is a difference in mastering...the vocals were not only brighter on CD, but a tad louder...a mastering matter? That's my impression...stronger bass on the vinyl too...can also be a mastering effect. Anybody bringing a disc washer? You won't believe it, but I bought the chemicals for cleaning vinyl and have not even used it yet LOL...guess I really don't want make the mess...but I'll have to do it if I play anymore of my older stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Andy, I'm bringing my carbon brush, stylus cleaner and MC demag gizmo. BTW, so far everybody I've done the a/b test thing with picks vinyl (using my Cary/EAR combo, not my 299 yet). Comments such as "nicer", "fuller", "less shrill" and "easier to listen to" are the norm. At the same time, 2 people who's judgment I trust implicitly, have told me that SACD discs are nearly indiscernible from like vinyl recordings in their systems. One of them has a Cary rig similar to mine, and the other a Nos Valves 299. Go figure. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 How many people ususally show up for these meetings? Just curious . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 There's usually anywhere from 8-15 people. And, they can hardly be called meetings. Some guys get there a little early and listen to some music. Then people drift in 'till about 1:30 or so. If it's like the last one with a guest speaker, Bruce will call things to order sometime between 1:30 and 2:00. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Guys, it has been terrific! Now I have seen and know better 2 more forum members...well...one more as I met Chris last time. I must admit, Dr Edgar's system sounded really superbly. The bass was clearer than my KHorns...but that could be a function of room acoustics, amplification and so on. I must admit that after this meeting I am listening to vinyl with a new ear...and everything I heard from people there, in particular Dr Edgar and Chris, has started to sway me away from my previous impression that I was hearing differences in mixing and mastering, though undoubtedly it can be a part of it. At least it has shown me that perhaps I should invest in a better TT and a disc washing system...oh boy...look how you all infected me now! I can't believe I'm saying these things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 I agree with Andy. The music was wonderful. So was the guest speaker, Bill Firebaugh. It was also nice finally meeting the Klipsch Forum's resident Jazz Sensei, Allan Songer. His records sounded fabulous. Oh yeah, Andy, how'd your son get so good lookin'? Gotta be the mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Andy, how'd your son get so good lookin'? -Secret formula I was trying to digest yesterdays experiences with relation to the vinyl/CD comparison. First of all, why am I trying to determine the difference? I do not have a lot of disposable income, so equipment purchases are not a frequent occurrence for me. I need a better source and wanted to be sure I choose what will sound best without a Ft. Knox price tag. There are so many choices and variables...good tubed red book CD like the Ah Njob, good red book and SACD like the ES 9000, and we all know a good TT can run into some bucks as well. Some interesting things from yesterday... How our brains fill in missing information in relation to audio. I forgot whether it was Bruce or Bill that told us how back in the 40s there was a recording that was very popular because people who heard it were struck with how real it sounded. It was a recording of a flute and bassoon. By nature, the flute does not produce many harmonic frequencies, it's mostly a fundamental tone. The bassoon's harmonics are supressed up until the 7th or 8th harmonic. Due to the limitations of the equipment of that day, the bassoon's fundamental frequency was not able to be reproduced, yet to everyone's ears, these upper harmonics sounded like the real thing (with their brains supplying the missing fundamental frequency). This is important to note as one tries to determine what sounds better...we are not always aware of how and when our brains supply what we think is missing. What's particularly difficult is adding the effect of our wants (like if you spend a gazillion dollars on a widget you want to have a benefit). I picked up another few tips from an engineer regarding care of equipment...he recommends cleaning contacts at least once a year (in any smog ridden area) as where there is smog, the metal particles in the air will through the process of electrolysis bond to metal (like tube pins and sockets). Also, I didn't think much about my Monster Cable corroding (I used it to replace the zip chord in my KHorns) until he told me that oxyginated copper acts as a diode introducing distortion...guess I'll be looking for some oxygen free wire! I also got a chance to spin a direct to disk Virgil Fox record of his organ music and asked Dr edgar how low he thought those bass notes were. He said something (I think) like 35-40 hz. I was surprized as I thought they were lower. He put on a CD of organ music the did get down to 20 hz, but noted that the presentation sounded much better on the record, which I must say, it did! BTW...here is a link to info about Bill's turntable: http://www.welltemperedlab.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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