Deang Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Looks like Dennis Had has another winner. Building on the success of the AE-25 Superamp (which led to the Cary Rocket), He has come up with these gems. 50 watts of zero feedback, Class A/B parallel push-pull using EL-34's in Triode. Very Nice. Something that is definitely up my alley, and would in fact stand a chance of ending up on my shelves someday if it weren't for one thing in particular. I'm not into marketing schemes that are based on fact twisting, and I really think Dennis went over the line on this one. "The front panel of each Sixpac is a simple affair, consisting of an on-off switch and a switch that can place 10dB of negative feedback into the circuit. Dennis says, "People are asking me why the heck I put it there. The reason is that I've been a proponent for fourteen years now of either low or zero feedback designs. That switch affords people an opportunity to hear what feedback can do in a negative fashion." He isn't kidding, folks. The change is not subtleit is a sort of "castration" switch. I demonstrated it for Michael Green...and it cracked him up! There is an educational function built into these monoblocks!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 It is odd that he would equip an amp with a feature which causes the sound to be unacceptable just so one could appreciate when it is operating in it's optimal mode. The switching on the Rocket 88, between triode and pentode is o.k., even cool. Variable feedback would have made sense,but this one leaves me scratching my head. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 12, 2003 Author Share Posted July 12, 2003 He wants to show the negative effect of the application of negative feedback. However, the only thing it demonstrates is the effect of negative feedback when improperly applied. He's trying to capitalize on ignorance, and I think it's being intellectually dishonest. I'm looking forward to his response from the email I sent him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Actually the triode/pentode switch is much of the same gimmick type selling tools. The amp is either optimized for one of the other so it twists peoples perception's away from whichever mode is not optimized. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Looks like I'm going to get a spanking today. Dean: I am perplexed by your message. I simply do not comprehend or understand the message. The feedback switch is in fact properly applied. This is global feedback from the output to the input. Some how or another I have offended you to the point of "I'm done with Cary." If you would be so gracious please give me your telephone number where I may call you to discuss this further. Have a great day ................. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wescott Dean G Contr 88 CG/SCB" <Dean.Wescott@wpafb.af.mil> To: <info@sixpacs.com> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:52 PM Subject: uhg > I like the amps, but I'm a little disappointed in Dennis. I don't get the negative feedback switch. I don't understand why he would want to take advantage of people's lack of technical knowledge regarding the operaton of amplifiers. > > Even a novice like me knows you can't just add feedback with the flick of a switch and say that this is a demonstration of what feedback does. It's only a demonstration of improperly applied feedback. > > I've owned several Cary products, The AE-25, the AE-25 DJH, the AE-3 DJH, and presently use a SLP-94 -- but I think I'm done with Cary. > > How absolutely tacky. > > Dean > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I don't think you should be spanked at all !! Your statement holds water so hold your ground ! Simply adding feedback to a circuit designed to run without feedback is not a fair comparision I don't care what Dennis says. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Well, he's always very nice to me, so maybe I'll get lucky. I do know that within about 45 seconds he's going to be talking completely over my head -- at which point everything starts sounding like Charlie Brown's teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Dean, Dennis sounds like your best friend. Absolutely amazing to find civilized and personable communication and desire to reach out to customer/constituents. Just reading your post earned about a ton of good will with me for Cary. Looking forward to hearing what he says when y'all talk. Perhaps he was overstating the case about the feedback switch in the quote you had earlier. Regards, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 An update here for what it's worth. I did get the call from Dennis later in the same day, and as usual -- he killed me with niceness. He did start out by chewing my rear in that jocular kind of way as a way to break the ice. It didn't take long -- it never does. Whoooosh -- right over the ol' noggin. Let's see, was it phasing, or phase angles -- hell, I can't even remember now. Well, one of those it perfect from beginning to end, and Dennis says that if he were to sell this amp with feedback -- not one thing in the circuit would need to be changed or optimised to accomodate the addition of it. He says "flipping the switch" really lets you hear the effect of "degenerative" feedback. Incidently, this feedback is applied globally, not locally (isn't Ultra-Linear a "local" feedback loop?). He did agree that his amps are optimized for Triode, and the the Ultra-Linear switching feature is a compromise -- but the best way to do it for additional power if the desire is primarily for good Triode sound. I always enjoy my conversations with Dennis, he's really cool. I suppose I would eventually like to try a pair of these when they hit the used market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I remember how hot my AES-25 used to get when the KT-88's were all warmed up. They scared my wife and she threatened bodily harm if our little tyke got burned by them. These six-packs look like they'd heat the entire south wing of my house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 Why Chris, they jist bee itty bitty lil ol' el34's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 And teensy-weensy glowing red ones at that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 You know what bothers me? Why does everyone squish the transformers together like that -- but then tell you to put your inductors 20 miles apart on the your crossover board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I can't answer that with any intelligence, but I will say that those EL34's are going to further bake those already warm transformers. Probably makes no difference whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 He is just side stepping the issue the amps are indeed tuned for no feedback you CAN not just randomly drop feedback in and get reasonable results. I wish Mark Deneen was here for this he would surely have something to say on this issue. Global , local , Negative it doesn't make any difference ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 I don't need Mark to tell me -- your word is plenty good enough Craig. I was just passing along what he said. I figure they probably sound pretty good, even with the switch (that I would never use anyways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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