avaddict Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Help!! I don't know what to set the speaker crossover freq. on my receiver! I am running a Sony ES receiver with RP-5s in the front (both rp-5s are being fed an lfe signal as well as speak con.) I also have an rc-3 center speaker. My first question is what to set the bass crossover freq. for the front and center speakers? I now have everything set at what sony calls standard (120hz) for lack of knowing what to do. My other problem, I have a 10" Boston sub in the picture which has an adjustable crossover as well and I'm not sure where to set that??? Perhaps with the powered subs in the rp-5s I don't even need the Boston 10"??????? ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 ava, what a nice problem to have why didn't they put an adjustable sub/front cut-off in my sony de935? anyway, does the bass sound muddy or boomy now on a bassy music track? basically u want the most bass output w/ the least amount of distortion. a delicate balancing act indeed. w/ the subs' cross all the way up (like u have 'em?) work the sony crossover point up from 60hz until it sounds best to u. since the rp-5 cross @ 90hz it may be bout 10hz over. but since u probably have the rp-5 high & low speaker level connected to each other, u probably won't hear much difference. but w/ the sep. boston sub, u may not need it or it may be best to turn the crossover on it down some so it doesn't conflict w/ the rp. or placement of the boston may make a dif. thang is, there's no set answer. takes some experimentin. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaddict Posted May 16, 2001 Author Share Posted May 16, 2001 boa, Thanks for the info. I have the bass contour on the rp5s set about midway (12 o'clock) and the Boston sub crossover is adjustable from 50-150hz, also set about midway! I find with HT things sound pretty damn good! Although we all know good is never good enough! My problem seems to be music is a little on the boomy side. If I run my Sony in analog direct mode (bypassing the dsp etc.) the boomy quality goes away, but everything sounds much to hollow??!! Looking for a solution so I don't have to make a million adjustments between HT/Music!!!!!! ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 yea ava that boominess probably is because your receiver's crossover is cascading/confliting w/ the subs' crossover. when u use direct mode it bypasses all the sony bass management. i'd just set the fronts small & try moving that sony crossover around. how does it sound on music w/ the boston sub off? u may want to have that sub in the room rear & wire it speaker level to the rear speaks. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaddict Posted May 16, 2001 Author Share Posted May 16, 2001 boa, Thanks for the info! I have been toying with the idea of moving the boston sub to rears for a while now. I think you just helped me make the decision to do it!! I will try messing around with the sony x overs for a while and see what happens! Think I might break down and get a RatShack spl meter also! I'll let y'all know how it goes ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 avaddict,well as boa said there are lots of variables. The first thing you should do is simply listen to the speakers until you become familiar with their sound.I think you will find that over time the needed adjustments will become more apparent to you.First of all I believe that most people with powered towers are guilty of adjusting the bass too loud and it tends to overcome the mids and highs.I am not familiar with the modern receivers with the bass management,but I'm apparently about to learn.I understand you are running high level to the speakers with LFE input to the built in subs.I would suggest trying somewhere around 80hz,or close to that, as a start.I would use the sub as boa suggested,in rear if possible,and set the Boston subs crossover around 50hz for starters.If you can't use in rear I would put on side wall and use LFE input and set crossover as above.You probably don't need the Boston sub,but hey,might as well use it.When/if you are familiar with some of your music/HT software and you have determined your speaker placement I think it will just be a process of adjusting and listening,adjusting and listening(the fun part).Over a short period of time needed adjustments will become readily apparent to your ears.And yes get and use the SPL meter. How do you have your RP's set up in relation to your room?Are you limited with placement account room size?Do you have them in/near corners?Another thing AV,how do you like the Sony 333ES? I'm about to buy the Sony STRV333ES for my mother-in-laws HT and ya gotta keep those women happy ya know!Local dealer says $590. Whattya think? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaddict Posted May 16, 2001 Author Share Posted May 16, 2001 Keith, Thanks for the info! I think that price for the 333ES is great! I am VERY pleased with the sony for HT. Maybe once I get everything set up properly I will be as happy for music?!!? As for how my setup is, I am extremely limited by room size! I have the rp's to the left and right of the tv (subs facing out) approx. 5-6 feet apart. Only about 8" to the right and left of tv. Boston sub is right now smashed up against R speak. I have a very open floor plan the corner to the R speak is about five feet away. The nearest wall to the L speak is about ten feet away. I'll let you know how I make out with the spl meter. ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Hughes DD Sat Receiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Keith & AVA I am sorry guys, but I have to put my two cents in here. Ava, I know we had this debate about Sony already, but I must let Keith know my view. As I mentioned in earlier posts I had the Sony STR-V333ES in my home for four months and the STR-V444ES for one. Within that time, I had two 333 before I could get a fully functional unit. The 444 also acted strange. First off, go into the store; test the unit on a good set of Klipsch speakers. Turn the volume up without any source and listen when the over powering hiss begins. On all my units, the hiss began at 1/3 and at the ½ way point and higher it is just obnoxious!!! Remember, I had a total of 5 Sony units in a period of 5 months. AVA mentioned that he is happy with the HT sound. Well look at the speakers he has. They are awesome. The bass, between them and the sub, must be surreal. Anyone would be amazed with that. He also mentioned he is not exactly happy with music yet. My bet: he will never be happy with it. When you listen to loud music, you are confronted with a terrible hiss, distortion at some frequencies and crackling. I hope your mother-in-law does not have sensitive hand. The ES line runs extremely hot. If she touches the top after a movie, she may get burned. I am not exaggerating. Again test them out. You may excuse the heat at the dealer because the unit is turned on all day. You should know they are always that hot and when you drive the unit it gets hotter. Why is the STR-333ES retail price $799.99 and the STR-444ES $999.99, but most stores sell it significantly less. The answer is simple. They are nowhere near the sound quality of other units in its class. It is a simple fact, the Sonys do not sell as much as their competitors (Denon, Yamaha, and Marantz ect..). I highly recommend looking at another brand. The bottom line: Sony pacts its ES class with tons of features and settings (MOST YOU WILL NEVER NEED OR USE), but the sound quality is less than desired. Dont just take my word, compare the Sony STR333ES to the Yamaha RX-V800 on www.audioreview.com (both units are retailed at $799.99). As for your $590 price, its not worth it. Tweeter sells the same unit for $599. I asked my trusted salesman why it was lowered $200 from retail. He said Tweeter chose to lower it because they were not selling nearly as many of them as Yamaha and Denon. Keith I know you appreciate great sound (from your system specs and previous comments in the forum). Stay away from Sony they are know for their wonderful hiiiisssssss!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaddict Posted May 17, 2001 Author Share Posted May 17, 2001 Ben, I hope you are wrong about that sony!! I would hate to have to trash it this soon!! Maybe that Denon is closer than I thought?????? ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Hughes DD Sat Receiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 bensilb,thank you for your comments.I appreciate you taking your time to offer them.I've had a SonyES receiver for years and it is perfectly quite and has worked flawlessly since I've owned it.When I consider a product one thing that I highly consider is the manufacturer's warranty.I feel like that if they have confidence in their product then they will convey that confidence to me via their warranty.Check your products warranty.Does your manufacturer think that his product will perform for one year,or two years.I've had experiences with other manufacturer's products but I will not get started on that. As far as my mother-in-law is concerned,here are the facts.She is 74 years old and a widow.Although her hearing is failing her,her eyesight is good.She mentioned to me that her TV had quit and that she had been to a local HiFiBuys and got prices on a Sony KV32FV26 television,stand,DVD player,and Bose Lifestyle 12II speaker system.Total around $4000.I told her that for that amount of money she could do better.Her comment was that she did not want a house full of speakers and wanted ease of use,and simply wanted to hear her tv.She wasn't concerned about owning a movie theatre.I understood perfectly and went about comparing prices.Here is my recommendation to her: Sony KV36FV26 TV w/stand,Sony STRV-333ES receiver,Sony DVP-NS400D DVD player,Sony SLV-N81 VCR,Definitive Technology ProCinema 80 speaker system W/sub (89-90db spl),and AR interconnects and Monster 14ga speaker wire.Total delivered price: $5 more than the Bose set-up. I think that the Bose systems are a rip and would have of course recommended Klipsch(good warranty)but don't feel Klipsch offers anything better for this scenerio. So bottom line: you give and you take.At least we've gone to a bigger(36)TV and better components and what should be great sound(check that audioreview you spoke of)for the money.And what should be a one remote operation.Oh yeah,I've been at her home when she was watching TV.Boy,was it loud!Unless the hiss hits around 70db, she'll never hear it! Any comments or suggestions regarding above will be appreciated (buying as above 6-1). Where's that avman when you need him? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaddict Posted May 17, 2001 Author Share Posted May 17, 2001 Keith, Great speech!!!!!!! seriously, I think my main problem is tweaking the set-up! Haven't had it long enough to make all those adjustments (the ones you will NEVER use) come together. I promise if this does not work out for me, I will not constantly bash Sony! That's 'NUFF SAID ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Hughes DD Sat Receiver This message has been edited by avaddict on 05-17-2001 at 12:53 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 avaddict, as I've said before you have to compare apples to apples.I've been considering receivers lately and am having a hard time deciding.Will probably buy a Denon 3801 simply because of the 7 channels of amplification and the features it offers.I do not have to use the 7 channels,but it would be nice to have.I'm also using powered towers so the 105 watts per channel should drive the mid/highs just fine.I'm not too happy with their chincy warranty,though.My old SonyES has some desireable features like defeatable sub crossover, ability to "power swap" the surround channel output to the front speaker amps(100 watts)and other usuable features.I've been using for years an Acurus 100X3 to power the front three speakers and the two Sony front channels for surround power.There is no audible SPL difference in the Sony amplification and the Acurus, although the Acurus bench tested an output of 168 watts per channel, all channels driven.I'm not suggesting that the Sony amps are as strong as the Acurus.Take it for what its worth.As far as your boominess goes,does your Sony have the built in parametric equalizer that my old piece of junk has?If it does then it needs adjusting.Try to think of your speakers as regular towers and adjust the bass to get an overall good balance.You will still get good low end.Let the Boston handle the lowest octaves.It'll just take some experimenting,and that will take time.Enjoy!After all, audio pretty well mimics life.You get out of it pretty much what you put into it! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 hey guys!!! i posted a response to this thread yesterday (maybe in another location)?? anyway, the sonys, from what i understand either boost or cut (depending on your + or - setting) ALL the frequencies up to what you set the Hz at. (the jury is still out on this, though). when you are in ANY ss mode, including a.f.d. (which is basically 2-ch + sub out for stereo sources) the 2-ch or ss OFF mode turns the line level sub out off.as far as sony es goes, i am the PROUD owner of a strda 777es (62lbs. of first class ss/dd/dts made in japan receiver!). while it MAY not be as nice as brit. or american made amps, (adcom,macintosh,bryston,etc.,etc.),i popped the top off and EVERYTHING is done right on this unit!! HOWEVER, the current lineup of sony es recvrs are 'fabrique en malayse', don't weigh as much, and in my opinion are not as well made, although they are still o.k.. IMPORTANT!-the sony receivers come w/ a way cool remote that IF you own ALL sony components, make operation a BREEZE! avman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 quote: Originally posted by bensilb: Keith & AVA Dont just take my word, compare the Sony STR333ES to the Yamaha RX-V800 on www.audioreview.com (both units are retailed at $799.99). As for your $590 price, its not worth it. Tweeter sells the same unit for $599. I asked my trusted salesman why it was lowered $200 from retail. He said Tweeter chose to lower it because they were not selling nearly as many of them as Yamaha and Denon. Well your 'trusted salesman' sounds like an idiot. Sony historically always sets their MSRPs considerly above the street price. Many companies do this, while some companies like Yamaha don't. If your 'trusted salesman' knew anything about the industry he would have known that...or maybe his margins are larger on the Yamaha equipment so he was pumping it! LOL As for the AudioReview article, wouldn't you expect a rec'r that cost $200 more to outperform a cheaper one? I know I would... I will admit that Sony's ES line isn't quite as good as it used to be (too many needless bells-&-whistles with a small drop quality) but it is still good stuff. My 333ES is just fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Thanks avman.Sounds like exactly what the doctor ordered for the mom-in-law(and the reason I was trying to keep it simple). Keith Oh yeah,my salesman said he would sale me a Denon 3801 for $999.Something smells fishy.Really fishy. This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 05-17-2001 at 05:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Well I might have been unlucky with 3 defective Sony units. I really like the look and features of the Sony, but the sound that I was getting was horrible. YOu guys might have been lucky and I unlucky. Also, I am not totally oposed to Sony. I love their TVs. They also have a huge selection of very good cd players. I am just not thrilled with their recievers. Also Keith, I think I was wrong about your mother-in-law. Its seems like she needed a powerful amp at a lower cost. The Sony's 110 watts per channel is very powerful (just make sure is is careful with the heat LOL). She probably would be unhappy with the Bose because they are very bassy but not loud. I had to turn my 333 up past 1/2 point to get anything loud. (I tried Bose and hated them more than Sony LOL) Good choice. As AVA said SOny is easier to use also. PS I love that your 74 year old mother-in-law is so into HT and DVD. She must be a really cool person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 ben, everyone has,and is entitled to,their own opinion. I personally have to be extra careful about what I type here because I don't want to be trampled into submission by some of the supporters of the product that I am bad mouthing at that particular time.And you are right about the heat problem with the Sony's.But then again the Denon's ain't no cool cucumbers either. I personally would rather have a 2801 or a 3300 with this set-up but if she has any problems operating it I'll probably not get much rest.And you're right about the mom-in-law.She gets around. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 avad, does your sony 333 actually have adjustable sub crossover or is it actually an equalizer (with the various peak frequency settings)? avam seemed to be describing an equalizer control, which even my sony de935 has. others are saying they have adjustable crossovers on their de945s. but many seem to confuse the receiver equalizer settings w/ adjustable crossover controls. but they're totally different things. just wanted to be sure. this bass mgmt is a living he** ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaddict Posted May 18, 2001 Author Share Posted May 18, 2001 boa, My 333ES has bass cossover adjustments for the Front L/R speaks, the Center speak and the L/R Surrounds. Nothing to do with the EQ settings (the EQ settings IMO are not very user friendly on this model!) Also have an LFE high cut setting. Speaking of EQ settings, does anyone know if the EQ settings go up to the Hz setting you select, or are you setting just the one particular setting. (hope you know what I mean!!) ------------------ Sony 333ES Receiver Sony 36" Wega Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd Klipsch RP-5s Front Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch KSB1.1 Rears Boston 10" sub Hughes DD Sat Receiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 avad(now have to add a "d" to distinguish), thanks for responding. i got confused & thought of that after seeing avam's post on the 333. but it seems the chinese or something have hacked his username. i DO at least have the equalizer on my sony de935 though & it should function the sames as yours. in your manual, u should see it described w/ a lil Bell Curve. the frequency u set for each range for each speaker group is at the top of the curve as to how much db is gained or attenuated depending where u set that parameter. maybe an example : say for your EQ you go to Front Bass. You set it to +5db & freq level of 250hz. the maximum gain(+5db) to the fronts signal will be at the 250hz mark. the gain will then taper off in both directions from the 250hz level. just for example, say at 200hz the gain will be only 4db. p.s., i'd always turn any lfe filter off or as high in hz as it goes. i wouldn't want to cut off any LFE the material mixers intended to be in that .1 channel. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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