m00n Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 I'm in my receivers settings doinking around trying to tweek thangs. I am playing with the triple cross over settings stuff and I want to know what the cross over values are for both small and large. When I say values, I mean 80hz 100hz.. Not a description of what they are. Oh and don't be-a chastizing me that I don't know this after a year and a half. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 mOOn: I think HT recievers vary how much power goes to the speakers when set to small or large. Not the frequencies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 20, 2003 Author Share Posted September 20, 2003 Furthermore, does anyone know what the low cross over frequency point is in the RF7s? RC7s and RS7s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 20, 2003 Author Share Posted September 20, 2003 ---------------- On 9/20/2003 2:36:55 PM bkrop wrote: mOOn: I think HT recievers vary how much power goes to the speakers when set to small or large. Not the frequencies! ---------------- Actually it deals with crossover points. Large and Small are predfined points at which your receiver will cut low freqencies to your speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 mOOn: I was wrong, on my Yammy when speakers are set to small everything < 90hz goes to the sub. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 ---------------- On 9/20/2003 2:42:55 PM m00n wrote: Furthermore, does anyone know what the low cross over frequency point is in the RF7s? RC7s and RS7s? ---------------- RF7: FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 32Hz-20kHz ±3dB RC7: FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz-20kHz ±3dB RS-7: FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 58Hz-20kHz ±3dB At least the RC7 and RS7 should be set to small. Possibly the RF-7, but you have to play with that. And set the crossover in your receiver, if it is variable and adjustable by channel, to around 60-70hz for the center channel and 70-80hz for the rear channels, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 20, 2003 Author Share Posted September 20, 2003 Thanks Doug, but I was really looking for something else that my manual was describing. Here is what it says.... ================================================= When all initial speaker size settings have been made, you now have the opiton to take advantage of teh AVR 7200's Trible Crossover System, which allows individual crossover settings to be made for each speaker grouping. The low-frequency crossover point is set by the design of your speakers. Depending on teh design and driver complement of your speakers, it is defined as the frequency which is either the lowest possible frequency the speaker is capable of reproducing, or the frequency at which sound is sent to teh speaker's internal low-frequency driver, as opposed to the mid-range driver. Before making any changes to teh settings for the crossover point we suggest that you find the crossover point for the speakers in each of the three groupings, front left/right, center, surrounds by looing at the specification page of teh speaker's owner's manual, by getting that information from teh manufacture's web site or by contacting your dealer. You need this figure to accurately configure the next group of settings. ================================================= Soooo... That is what I need, the point at which frequencies are sent to the low-frequency driver. Here is a link to the manual the area where I am reading is on page 23 if it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 m00n - Are you looking for the crossover point within the speaker itself, the point that the tweeters hand off to the woofers? If so, I believe it is 2200hz for the RF-7's. Because the RF-7s are 2-way speakers, those woofers have to reach way up high to meet the tweeters. Even on my 3-way's, the crossover to the woofer is something like 600hz... The RC-7 is 550hz because of its tapered array. The RS-7 is 2000hz. From their verbiage ("it is defined as the frequency which is either the lowest possible frequency the speaker is capable of reproducing, or the frequency at which sound is sent to teh speaker's internal low-frequency driver, as opposed to the mid-range driver"), I think you are looking for the low end of the frequency response of the entire speaker, because you have 2-way speakers (no mid-range driver), which is what I put in my first post But, I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I looked at the same data d.d. did. If you go to the product section of Klipsch page and go to the RF, you have to down load a pdf file and look at the fine print at the bottom. Pretty slow on my dial up connection. Then the print is small on my laptop. However, per d.d., the RF series treble horn goes down to about 2000 Hz. Then, we have the issue of a tapered array in the bass on some of the speakers. This means that there is not a typical set up. Went there are two "bass" drivers, one turns on (as we go down) to handle the upper bass, which is actually the midrange, alone. Then the second one turns on as we go down to give us two "bass" drivers working in the lowest frequecies. Not well explained. I'm a bit puzzled about why the receiver manual is asking for the info. Thanks for the link. I'll have to wait to go to the office with the DSL line and a printer. Too much for this morning at home. 80 pages in pdf is a long, slow project. Generally this is a matter of bass management by the receiver. It is a system designed by very bright engineers. However, it is not well documented. I.e the manuals are very poor in describing what the goal is and how to get to it. The designer of the receiver is allowing you to to send bass to the biggest ones (called "large"), or the sub (*). So if the center and surrounds are set to small (a typical situation), then the bass otherwise sent to them goes to whatever is set to large (typically the big flanking speakers). This prevents the small speakers (small in dimensions and weak in bass) from being overloaded. The "small" setting is saying, "Don't send any deep bass to these guys, they are small." It is somewhat an insult to our intelligence. Somewhere they should say, this small/large issue is just us asking if we should find a better speaker to send low bass to. (prep at end of sentence) and therefore we'll put in a crossover. However this line of demarcation for the small/large in the receiver is in the area of 80 Hz. Certainly not the crossover, in the speaker, from the treble to the bass (here at 2000 Hz). I put in the (*) because it is not clear what happens when there is a sub in the system. It may be that when the receiver software is told there is a sub, then even the "large" speakers don't get deep bass. Not your fault in reading at all. Best I can do for now. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 21, 2003 Author Share Posted September 21, 2003 Gil, just so you know, the section of text above is for the bass/lfe settings. Thanks for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Gee, looking again, it is almost like they are talking about a bi-amping situation. Is there an option for feeding the main (non-sub) speakers with a signal for the treble and a signal for the bass? In that case, the information requested would make some sense. For the record, this LFE stuff is not explained well and it gets jumbled into the use of 5.1 for both speakers and the multichannel digital source. These are two different things. The .1 in the digital source is indeed a channel dedicated to low bass, but not all bass. Depends a bit on how they mix it. They might keep bass guitar in the main channels and only use the LFE (0.1) channel for the always popular explosions. In any event, the 6 channels (5 plus .1) arrive at the input to the HT receiver where there are a myriad of what to do along the lines of "bass management" and manage other channels too. For example, if you have only two speakers, they should be set to large and the LFE input gets sent to them. Probably the surround too the menus are properly cranked. If you add a sub (which is the .1 of the speakers) and the menus are cranked properly, then the bass from the main channels of the digital input, plus the LFE channel, is sent to the sub. I point that out because it is possible to think the 5.1 digital sources are sent to the 5.1 speakers in exact symetry. Maybe you can do it, but "it ain't necessarilly so." It could be that your receiver has the ability to bi amp the regular speakers. So then they are looking for the high frequeny limit of the regular bass drivers within the boxes. Then you take off the jumpers. Doubtlessly many people know the above, and more than I do. But the manuals don't make this clear at all. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 ---------------- On 9/20/2003 5:54:23 PM m00n wrote: it is defined as the frequency which is either the lowest possible frequency the speaker is capable of reproducing ---------------- This would be what DD was referring to in his original post. I think this is what you should be using... ie: what you speakers are capable or reproducing. You can try a couple of settings, but 60Hz seems reasonable for your three front channels. The other part of their text: ---------------- or the frequency at which sound is sent to the speaker's internal low-frequency driver, as opposed to the mid-range driver. ---------------- I think it's just badly worded... but my guess is that it refers to a speaker system that has a "built in" subwoofer... or is part of the package. For example Promedia's satellite speakers are just mid-range drivers and x-over quite high to their sub. Just my 2cents... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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