SUB

[DRBILL]

If you placed a subwoofer in a corner, should it be "toed-in" like a Klipschorn, and if so, should it fire outward or into the corner. Or should it be squared to the corner. Again, should it face the front or side? Or perhaps it doesn't matter at all?

This is not a hypothetical quiz. I can have the loan of one for a day to see how I like it with my Klipschorns. I want to optimise my listening time instead of fidgeting around with experiments.

Ideas?

Father Bill

[itsmyforte]

if your looking to boost a frequency then corner loading is your best bet. that being said face the driver toward the corner. course every room is different, your going to have to experiment to get it dialed in.

[Guest BobG]

BAsed on the very long wavelengths produced by a subwoofer, the direction it faces should make no difference. A sub should make NO mids and highs, but harmonic distortion will present itself as higher frequencies. If the driver faces away from the listeners, any higher frequency information from harmonic distortion will be less audible.

[TheEAR]

I place all my subs alingside the front wall and my Klipsch RW tower(10,12 and 15)sits in a corner.

This is only to get max reinforcement from the surfaces around the sub(s),placed in a corner and angled 45 the sub should produce MAX SPL,sometimes this will be at the cost of clean and even bass.So the sub would have to be moved around to find the best spot.

Any place where it sounds most even,close to walls would be great.

[DRBILL]

Thanks, Bob,

That was my intuitive wisdom. I'll give it a try. I listen to a great deal of pipe organ music that has 32' ranks. Low CCCC is about 16hz. The Klipschorns aren't shabby in this range in spite of the published specs. With your head against the back wall you can "feel" those grave notes so you know they are being reproduced. I just thought it would be interesting to see what a sub might do. I don't know anything about the loaner except that it is a black cube with a 15" driver, unported, with a 200w amplifier. Whew. I may have to put new nails in the sheetrock!

I'll get back with you after the experiment.

BEST,

FR BILL

[PhilMays]

I know it's a pain, but you should try moving the sub around as much as possible. I think you will be amazed with the performance characteristics in different locations.

For instance, I had a KSW-12 and traded up to a KSW-15. The 12" sub wasn't shabby at all and I very much enjoyed it. When I decided to place a rear sub in my system I imediatly thought of adding the KSW-12 in the mix. The area for this sub was specific and could not be moved. I was highly disapointed in the KSW-12's performance and took it back for a B & W ASW 1000 which is absolutely awsome there.

My lesson learned is that there is a product for every location

[Ki Choi]

DR. BILL:

If you placed a subwoofer in a corner, should it be "toed-in" like a Klipschorn, and if so, should it fire outward or into the corner. Or should it be squared to the corner. Again, should it face the front or side? Or perhaps it doesn't matter at all?

After years of wrestling with subs for pannel speakers (Maggies, Quads, and etc.), I have few thoughts to offer. As one of the poster had stated, bass signal below ~40Hz is non-directional. However, smooth integration with main speakers (in this case K-horns with such a high efficiency) would be a challenge. Having them in the corner or other room boundaries would produce max output but further away you go from your main source, there's timing issues that may be a bigger problem than lack of volume.

I am not sure yet but K-horns do go down to ~35Hz then the crossover point should be around 40Hz at highest slope possible (24dB/Oct) and play over the main speakers.

The best main/sub integration I have experienced is Quad ESL-63s and Gradient SW-63subs, playing the main speakers high passed at 100Hz and having the Gradient subs physically located right below it.

[Colin]

Although BobG is right he is always right many subs do NOT reproduce just low notes. Many moderate subs, and the KSW series certainly fits the bill, reproduce mid and upper bass notes, to 250Hz. Because of this locating moderate subs in the center of the soundstage, under the TV, for example, is a good idea. One high-end loudspeaker manufacturer, Vince Christian, likes to position his speakers in an arc, with the sub at the apex. Sitting there, in front of the stereo TV rack, the sub contributes greatly to the mid-range, the 3D sonic illusion and the violence in action movies.

[formica]

Many people and manuals recommend the corner loading of a sub, but if you are after the best room response I'd have to agree with Colin with mid wall placement, but for different reasons.

Obviously ideal placement will vary greatly with each room (as bass waves are very long and therefore room dependant) but you will find the following things for most rectangular rooms with no acoustic treatment:

- Corner placement will produce the greatest SPL because it will excite the room nodes but it will also give the most variable room response in both frequency and locations (large variances in different frequency responses at different locations)

- Mid-wall placement will not produce the most bass, and may seem lacklustre to many but it will have a more consistent frequency response in most locations. Will probably integrate better with your horns.

If you are tight for time in experimenting with the demo unit (after all, you'll want to listen to it more than move it around), I'd try at least those two locations... corner and midwall.

Do you have a SPL meter? Run some pink noise through the sub and adjust it's level so it'll be flat with your mains. May people will set their sub to run "hot" and then find it to boomy. When listening to music, you should not hear the sub except when you turn it off.

Let us know how you testing goes...

Rob