Allan Songer Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 The first time I heard Ike Quebec's mighty tenor was about 25 years ago --in the middle of side one of Sonny Clark's final LP, "Leapin and Lopin'"--a straight ahead hard-bop quintet classic with Charlie Rouse and Tommy Turrentine on the front line. But right there in the middle of side one is a ballad "Deep in a Dream," with Quebec on tenor and Rouse and Turrentine nowhere to be found. Quebec isn't even listed on the album cover, but this cut is amazing--soulful, quiet but POWERFUL-one of my all time favorite tenor ballad cuts. The story goes is that Quebec was in the studio and sat in on this one tune just for the hell of it and the cut was so fine it ended up on the LP. Ike was an A&R man for Alfred Lion and wan often there for sessions. Within days of hearing this cut I went on a Ike Quebec hunt and found that he had done all of his recording in two brief spurts--a couple of years in the mid to late 1940's and then again in the early 60's. I guess dope kept him "away from the scene" in the 1950's and then lung cancer took his life in early 1963. But the tracks he laid down for Blue Note at both ends of his career are uniformly EXCELLENT. The early samll-ensemble swing cuts for Blue Note have been reissued by Mosaic, but are now out of print. When Quebec went back into the studios in 1960 he cut a bunch of juke-box 45s--pretty much all 3-minute boiling soul-jazz classics. These cuts were also issued by Mosaic and are also out of print. After the 45 sessions Quebec cut a series of LPs that tend to feature his ballad playing and this is where he really shines--second ONLY to Ben Webster in my book. The LPs are "Heavy Soul," "It Might as Well be Spring," "Blue and Sentimental" and "Bossa Nova Soul Samba." They are all GREAT records, but if you have to start somewhere, check out "Blue and Sentimental" an all-star piano-less quartet date with Grant Green, Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones (Sonny Clark does make an "unannounced" appearance on the final cut!). Anyway, this afternoon I listened to ALL of it--all of the Mosaic stuff and all of the Blue Note LPs, including a couple that weren't released until the 1970s--"Congo Lament" and "Easy Living." Almost 6 1/2 hours of Ike Quebec. I'm drained--feel like I just went 15 rounds with a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Out of Print bargain I lke that stuff too. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Ike Quebec's Blue and Sentimental Ironically enough, I was listening to Ike Quebec's "Blue and Sentimental" this afternoon. You are right, this is an excellent record and I recommend it as well. The Japanese CD remaster is OK sonically if you dont have the vinyl. It is a bit hot sounding, however. 1. Blues And Sentimental 2. Minor Impulse 3. Don't Take Your Love From Me 4. Blues For Charlie 5. Like 6. That Old Black Magic 7. It's All Right With Me 8. County Every Star Here is the title track off the LP via 128k MP3 Listen to: Ike Quebec - Blue & Sentimental.mp3 kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Ironically, I listened to that album today as well. Ok, that was after I heard you both listened to it. The CD I have (ten years old) sounds almost as good as the vinyl, is there possibly a difference between the sound of the current Japanese CD and the CD that was produced for release in 1990 by Cuscuna? Or are all CDs the same? Once mastered from the analog is that it, or can there be differences in various CD issues? c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Mobile, Thanks so, so much for sharing this with us. I really enjoyed hearing this! I am hooked. (found this on Amazon.com for only 10.48 (cd). I am blown away at the lovely sounds coming thru my little KG 4's, which intriques me as to how much better this would sound with CW's. ........(dam bugs are knipping again..) Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 It might sound a bit hotter on the CWs, my CD sounds better on my Altec system than on the CW with HF-81. I would guess that SET would cool it down though. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I have to admit, the version I used for the 128k MP3 was the 88 CD version. You are right in that it surely sounds much better than a host of other CDs of that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 It is a shame that Mosaic stopped issuing vinyl, they were doing such a great job. I am glad to have the sets I have. Recent reissues of things generally from other companies, either on vinyl or CD, seem to be hit or miss these days. Some things I have purchased recently sound great, others poor. For example the recent Blue Note vinyl reissue of "Blowin in from Chicago" not as good as the older Japanese vinyl reissue by a longshot. Collecting can become a continual process of upgrading and can lead one to expensive temptations. Current prices for an original pressing of this great LP are upwards of $600 and going up. These prices groom one's perception, in that it is simply possible to switch one's ears into music comprehension mode rather than audiophile perfection mode. One must make a decision about what and why one is collecting . Serious collecting can become a viable financial investment strategy and requires that kind of attention. It probably makes more sense than other investments these days along with real estate or antiques. Personally I do not wish to give it that attention just yet. A question arises, with a highly valuable record collection, just what to do with it eventually. The collector is usually faced with liquidation at some point, although libraries are reconsidering vinyl after all those years of dumping their vinyl. How does one decide when that point is. I have a friend with a valuable collection who is going deaf, but that does not stop him from holding onto his collection which he can sort of hear with the right headphones. It takes work to find the right place to bequeath a collection. Very difficult. Guess you could uneBay it all in the end, but that could be NOT what you want to be spending time doing at that point. With upwards of 10K recordings, I cannot even think of needing mint originals for everything. When I want to experience the pinnacle of sound or show off the system, I simply play something I have which is sonically great, otherwise it is more about the informational side of the music. One important piece of LP vinyl that I have is a rare Cuban pressing and I will probably never see another copy or even know anyone else who has it. Unfortunately the hole seems to be off center! bummer. The only solution I can think of is to drill a larger hole and then visually try to center the disc on the TT and clamp it down. I could then make a CD copy for study, but if I want to play the vinyl from that point on, I will have to recenter it every time. I have not yet had the courage to drill into this rare piece, but I know of no other way to remedy the slight annoyance of this resulting speed anomaly. The musician side of me says, drill the hole, the collector side of me says don't mess with it.....maybe I will try this technique on a junk LP and see how it goes first. Is it possible that this seeming off center variation is not related to the hole position? this post wondered all over the place....sorry.... C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Collecting. I don't know why I collect, but it generally starts with really, REALLY LIKING something. I collect Paul Landacre wood-block prints because I happened across one a couple of decades ago and stopped dead in my tracks. But now I can't really afford them! Same goes for Thomas Hart Benton wood-blocks. I didn't really get into "completing" my jazz LP collection until one day a few years ago when I cataloged what I had and found that I was only 10 LPs short of having EVERY Contemporary Records LP ever made--even though most of the ones I didn't have were Andre Previn LPs I just HAD to hunt them down! I also found that I was only about 40 LPs away from having EVERY Blue Note from the Lion/Wolff era so I started seeking them out and in the process started buying earlier and BETTER pressings of records I already owned as an "upgrade." I'm still in this process and am now EXACTLY 7 records away from having them all--unfortunately they are all $600-$1500 records and I just can't seen to pull the trigger EVERY time, so the search goes on! I guess I'll then move on to Prestige--I'm about 60 or so LPs short of having all of them from the NY/New Jersey era. As to what will happen to my records when I'm gone? Maybe I'll leave them to Doctors Without Borders and they can sell them on ebay and keep the cash . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I dont collect anything for the sake of collecting. Nothing. For some reason, I just have never liked that mentality as I find you end up turning off what makes the entity good to begin with, although that is surely not what is happening with Allan with music. But collecting things has always struck me as an idea once good now turned mechanical. I think the last thing I collected was a hand full of beach glass... Then again, I could think of many things worse than collecting all of the Prestige catalog... such as beach glass... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 You're right, of course, I don't listen to those Andre Previn and Mel Henke records--but I paid on average about 5 bucks a piece for them! As far as the Blue Notes go--I don't think there was a SINGLE bad record made in the Lion/Wolff era--not all great of course, but not one turkey in the bunch. Prestige was more hit or miss, but what the hell . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Kelly, Thanks for the MP3! I've always enjoyed listening to Ike's recordings. I believe I only have one or two in my collection. C&S, I don't have 10,000 recording, but I know I have many original pressings that are probably worth several hundred each if I were to choose to sell them. I don't consider myself a collector, but merely a Jazz enthusiast. If I had the time and dollars, I'd love to have more LP's by many more artist under my roof, but I know I could never amass all the titles and artist's I desire. I simply try to enjoy the music I do own as often as possible. You seem to be unsure which disease you should be diagnosed with. Collector, enthusiast, whatever. I think collectors like Allan are also enthusiasts who have clearly defined goals for their purchases. I only wish I could spend a few days at his home with my reel to reel deck going 12 or 18 hours a day recording some of the Blue Note and Contemporary LP's to bring back home with me. Allan, I like Ike but own very few of his LPs. Why? Gene Ammons LPs would usually get preference. Maybe it's time I filled some holes in my collection. Thanks for the reminder. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Now that you mention it, it is obvious that the idea of a charity or non-profit using eBay to manifest cash from a donated collection will become commonplace. There are already businesses which offer to sell computerless people's stuff on eBay for a fee. My completist record collecting tendencies have gone for particular favorite artists across labels or even studio dates: Bird, Lester, Monk, Coltrane, Dexter, and a few others. Some really interesting material musically can sometimes be found in low-fi non-studio recordings fortuitously captured. I like to eavesdrop on as much history as possible. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Mark, I can think of no other way to possibly correct for the very annoying speed (pitch) variation that results from the off-center hole. My point is that I am more interested in the music than its collectibility. I would end up with an LP that could possibly sound better (but with a larger hole, AND a CD which I could master from it for easier use.) I think a better analogy than the refinished and thus devalued Ferderal furniture would be an old book which is falling apart and thus saved by a quality bookbinder. The flawed LP would be analogously "rebound" by enlarging the hole thus making the still valuable rare music more playable. It is the only fix I can think of, and the value of a recording IS the music, not just the object/relic. If the antique furniture is broken it should be fixed, not refinished, but fixed in some acceptable manner so it is useable. Even a 10K laser turntable cannot fix the playing of the off center disc. Perhaps there might be some digital computer fix but who does that? That is something to look into. I wonder if the people who resurrect and re-master old recordings have such a technique, something like a "pulse correction". I can see how it might be possible technically. OK, I will look into that before I hit the drill press. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 c7s, Didn't you bring up this off-center hole before? I'm with Mark: Don't drill it. How far off is it? Is the geometric center still in the hole, albeit off-center? Are the grooves concentric with the outer edge of the disc (in other words, if the hole was centered on the disc, would it play ok?)? One idea would be to double-stick tape it to the platter (with the spindle removed). At least you'd be able to make a tape recording, or a cd. Sounds like a fun project! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Here is what I would do with the off-center hole: Assuming you have an arm with adjustable VTA (an old SME 3009 or 3012 would be PERFECT), then simply make a THICK rubber (that shelf-lining stuff would be PERFECT) mat for your table that BURIES the spindle. Then center the LP on top of the mat and put some sort of weight on the label area to keep the LP in place. Raise the arm to the correct hieght and play the record. I think this will work well enough for you to get a nice recording . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Alan, good idea. Funny how a person forgets to think outside the box. I will try that method. fini, you bring up a good point, maybe the hole has nothing to do with being off center, maybe the whole darn disc is slightly ovular. What can you do with that? You can say ovular, cantja? John Cage has a piece of music based on drilling a hole in an LP larger than the LP...... C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 After that, try a few LPs of John Zorn for you listening pleasure. While Cage my work on the hole larger than the LP take, Zorn would go a step further and recommend jumping through the hole after it was completed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 There's thinking outside the Cage... fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 "The Big Gundown" at about 105db. I actually own this LP and pull it out about once in a blue moon. Fascinating stuff. Zorn blows my mind . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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