t-man Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Hey guys. I know the old stuff is far superior and more expensive than the new, but just how good is the SW15? How is it different from the SW15II? How would this sub compare to the highly talked about SVS subs, and the soon to be released Reference Klipsch subs? I may have found one for sale, and I want to know if I should go for it, and how much money would be a good deal to offer. Currently, I have the KSW12, and am very unimpressed for music. Looking for something more. Also, with the passive radiator, how close can you place these in the corner, or how close to a wall can you put it? That's a concern for me as well. ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Player Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted June 9, 2001 Author Share Posted June 9, 2001 What? No takers on this one. How about it BobG, TV. Let's talk about these old babies and compare them to what's available (or soon to be available) today. I dare you.... T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtximages Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 I cant believe these subs get so neglected on this bb. IMO the sw series is ffffaaarrrr better than the ksw, but i dont know about the new subs. The sw 15 is a HUGE 15 in active woofer with a 15 in rear passive radiator with a 200 watt amp. Home Theater Magazine called it the "Barry White of subwoofers." In its comparison with several other $1500 subs the sw 15 came in 1st or 2nd in every comparison if i remember right. It was by far the loudest and most robust sub of the group although it was criticized for being kinda slow by some reviewers. Its rated down to 27 hz and i think it hits that mark well if you set it up right. This sub is a beast. I do not know how it will compare to the new svs subs but ill bet it will move more air and be louder but i dont know about it sounding better. I HIGHLY recommend it especially with your KG 5.5s. I use mine with my la scalas and i set the sub to about 3 or maybe 4 on the volume dial. I never pass 11oclock or so on the dial either. Where the ksw subs are lighter, cheaper, and bottom out the sw 15 is big, heavy and will not bottom out. VERY LITTLE DISTORTION. Anyway, take a look at the new klipsch subs, but youll pay a large price for them too. You can get a used sw15 for pretty cheap. It will KILL your ksw12. I actually had the ksw 12 for about a week when i sold it and bought the sw12. Now i have two sw 12s and one sw 15. I dont know about the difference in the II series. They did make the sw 15 in a THX version and a V series. The "v" stands for vineer i think. Its a cheaper covering. I think the "II" is to distinguish from the THX and the "V" series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 The SW series subs were really good for their time and price. SWII cured some amp problems and were less prone to hum and noise. Dual differential inputs and a slightly different output stage. Other than that, the driver and box configuration was identical from SW to SWII. The V designation indicates Vinyl exterior rather than real wood veneer. The SW and SWII were available in seven different wood veneers. I use a couple of SW-12-II's for center and rear at the moment. To compare the SW series with the KSW is not an apples to apples deal. KSW comes in at a much lower price than SW. If you can get a great deal on SWII, do so. SW series one may be a problem with noise depending on the system and good fortune. RSW will surpass any subs Klipsch has offered for home use. Yes, the prices are similar to SW but the content and performance is far beyond the SW series. Only problem is they are still a little while from shipping. Getting all the fine points just right before we spring these on our unsuspecting competitors (yo, competitors, you reading this?) we know you watch this board closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted June 11, 2001 Author Share Posted June 11, 2001 BobG and others, What kind of noise on the SW line? Amp hum? How bad can it be? I still have noise with my KSW12 as well. What would be a good price on a nice SW15? $300-$400?? Also, does this sub need more wall clearance than my ported KSW12 due to the PR? Thanks, T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 >>>(yo, competitors, you reading this?) we know you watch this board closely.<<< Yo,Bob... See the latest Tom Nousaine data lately? The SENSIBLE SOUND just published a review written by Tom Nousaine on a dual 20-39cs/600w package. the first figure is for a corner loaded subwoofer, 2 meter SPL mic distance,10% distortion limit,and the SPLs have been averaged from the maximum output at 1/3 spacing at 25/31/40/50/63hz. Any additional figures note extension and the clean headroom at the lowend. ( * ) denotes a manual data adjustment applied by myself to compensate the subwoofer from Nousaine's *small* room(2400) to his newer *large* room(7500). SVS Dual 20-39cs/600w 115.5 /20hz~97dB / 25hz ~111.8dB / 31hz ~120.9dB(124dB peaks) . STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99 VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9 SV 20-39cs(w 300watts) 109.5dB / 20hz~91dB / 25hz~105.8dB VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1 MISSION 700as - 108.1 / 25hz~102 VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1 Paradigm PW2200 - 107.4 / 20hz~84 / 25hz ~104dB (112.8dB peak) Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99 HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~9325hz~99dB Cerwin Vega cvt300s - 107 / 16hz~80db / 20hz~92(112.4dB peak) KLIPSCH KSW300 - 106.0 / 25hz~92 * Cerwin Vega LW12 - 106.0 / 20hz~89 POLK 650 -105.9 / 25hz~90 Infinity 1.2s - 105.5 / 20hz ~90 / 25hz~95 BW asw1000 - 105.4 / 25hz~92.4 * MK mx125 mkII - 105.3 / 20hz 89 / 25hz 95 VELODYNE ct150 - 105.3 / 20hz~82(111.4dB peak) JBL D112 - 105.2 / 25hz~95 KLIPSCH KSW12 - 104.9 / 25hz~90 Boston Acoustics PV800 - 104.4 / 20hz~85 Phase Technology PC500(towers) - 103.6 Infinity interlude100 - 103.5 / 25hz ~ 94 BW asw2000 - 103 / 29hz * PSB Subsonic6 - 102.7 / 25hz~94 Sound Dynamics rts1200 - 102.1 / 25hz~92(110.9dB peak) Infinity IL100s - 102dB / 25hz ~94dB VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87 MK - mx105 -100.6 / 25hz~86 ATLANTIC TECH 272 PBM - 100.5 / 20hz~85 INFINITY hps250 - 100.2 / 25hz~82(112.8dB peak) KLIPSCH LF10 - 100.1 / 25hz~90 ------------------------------- The Dual 20-39cs/700w package is $1289 delivered. to match it down low(20-32hz----a VERY important HT bass range btw!)....you'd need... approx 10 LF10s approx 10 ksw15s approx 10 ksw12s. I think the new rsw10 will be in the $1200-$1300 range? Let's hope Nousaine gets one to torture. In the woof-wars, it's all too easy to talk the talk(sims/bench racing/anecdotal BS). To walk the walk...it's all about independent data gathered using repeatable methods. I'll be watching SoundVision closely for the upcoming rsw review(s)... TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 hey tv, congrats on the addition to the TN list! wonder if/when TN will get the Vel HGS-18 on there. i like to use the SPL for the F1800 for my HGS, but imagine mine's lower. or is it? ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 >>>hey tv, congrats on the addition to the TN list!<<< Thanks, the *lead* time in the industry is in dog years or something, it might ONLY take 10 months...but it seems like 5 years >>>wonder if/when TN will get the Vel HGS-18 on there. i like to use the SPL for the F1800 for my HGS, but imagine mine's lower. or is it?<<< From what I've seen during the "like model" VELODYNE comparisons...you'd add about 4-4.5dB to the HGS15 output. so the HGS should have something like...(all in Nousaine's LARGE 7500 cu-ft room)... 112.0dB / 94dB~16hz / 107dB~25hz. Right at the top of the list(big surprise huh?)...and if you need the lowest,cleanest,loudest bass you can get in a single relatively small box---the hgs18 really has few peers in the industry. TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 thanks again tv! that's music to my ears! i now have that second room going w/ the klipsch reference. a dual svs pack would work in there rather nicely i do believe. i'll listen to the new rsw-10 or 12 1st though just to give 'em a fair shake. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted June 14, 2001 Author Share Posted June 14, 2001 Hey gang, TV sent me some info that was rather interesting based on objective tests that deals with this whole SW line vs KSW line thing. Particularly, in response to my inquiries about the SW15. Here goes (re-printed with his permission): " When Tom Nousaine compared the 12" SW12 series II(VIDEO--december 1995)...to 10 other subwoofers...it was typical Klipsch. Great output >35hz...but it only had reasonable clean output down to about 30-32hz. (which tied with two other *iffy* subwoofers for the WORST extension of the pack) Interestingly...when TN reviewed the ksw12 a couple of years later...it paralleled the SW12's performance almost exactly. I know the SW15s a good unit >32hz...because the ksw15 is a real killer over 32hz. But even though I dont have any SW15 specific data...all the evidence(internal component level,klipsch design ideology,and independent published data on the same *SW* model line) indicates the SW15 isn't going to perform much differently from the ksw15. So...in the end...I'd expect the SW15 to be a real killer >32hz(typical klipsch)...but to be fairly poor in the first octave(16-32hz)." Well BOBG and others, let's start the dialogue about this opinion. Is this correct? Are there any other objective data to dissprove this? Thanks, T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.