Klipsch RF7 Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 ---------------- On 12/21/2003 4:20:11 PM Allan Songer wrote: If you truly have a nice collection of shellac in mint condition and want to play them on a grammophone, then you will need to buy a BOATLOAD of new steel needles. You should use a NEW needle for EACH play--NO KIDDING AROUND!!! If you do this your shellac records will stay in pretty much pristine condition. REMEMBER! A new needle for each play--EVERY TIME!!!! ---------------- Exactly, that is what ive read as well How do you recommend me cleaning my shellac records? Ive read that you can use some tapwater with a little bit of soap and wipe them with a clean rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I use the Disc Doctor solution and brushes. I have a good sized collection of late 1940's/early 1950's bebop 78s and I play them either on the TD-124 with a mono 78 SPU or on my 1938 Wurlitzer jukebox (I have modified the tonearm and it now tracks at 3.5 grams with a Shure 78 cartridge--looks stock). As far as how they sound? The oriignal 78s(if in near mint condition) sound as good as these recordings CAN sound--you have to re-tune your ears to these staight to wax pre-magnentic tape recordings--they have GLORIOUS midrange tonality and totally rolled off hight and lows--they are NOT hi-fi! I recently did an A/B comparison with some pals with a bunch of Art Pepper Discovery 78's and the most recent CD issue of the same material. The CD was quiet, but in every other way the original shellac ROMPED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 on my 1938 Wurlitzer jukebox Now this sounds really cool !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 ---------------- On 12/21/2003 4:52:07 PM Allan Songer wrote: I use the Disc Doctor solution and brushes. I have a good sized collection of late 1940's/early 1950's bebop 78s and I play them either on the TD-124 with a mono 78 SPU or on my 1938 Wurlitzer jukebox (I have modified the tonearm and it now tracks at 3.5 grams with a Shure 78 cartridge--looks stock). As far as how they sound? The oriignal 78s(if in near mint condition) sound as good as these recordings CAN sound--you have to re-tune your ears to these staight to wax pre-magnentic tape recordings--they have GLORIOUS midrange tonality and totally rolled off hight and lows--they are NOT hi-fi! I recently did an A/B comparison with some pals with a bunch of Art Pepper Discovery 78's and the most recent CD issue of the same material. The CD was quiet, but in every other way the original shellac ROMPED! ---------------- Nice, sounds like a sweet setup. So what do you think about the TT that was suggested by Ryan and the Shure cartridges? Are they pretty decent stuff for the money, i just want to get my feet wet in records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Concerning steel needles vs cactus needles. Catus needles were used for two reasons. One was economy. They were cheap back in depression era. The other reason was that many people liked the softer sound they had. Many of the old "glory horn" designs, combined with the midrange heavy recordings of the time, tended to sound very shrill with steel needles. Cactus thorns had a much softer sound that many prefered, but opinion was divided (much like todays digital vs analog, ss vs tube, horn vs direct radiator, etc).Steel was considered more "accurate", while cactus was "euphonic". Also, a steel needle does have the potential to wear records much faster then cactus. Most people tried to skimp on needles and used the steel for more then one play. Cactus was literally worn out on one play, but was way cheaper, so it was popular with some. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Dave, Ok so your supposed to replace the needles after every playback because the steel needle gets worn out by the Shellac and ruins the record? Ryan, thanks alot man! I just placed my bid for it Im ordering the Shure cartridges that from that one source that Craig posted about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 This isn't mine, but I have the same model, the 616B. The integrated amp is a push-pull triode (45). It's stuffed full of Charlie Parker, Howard McGhee, Art Pepper, Thelonious Monk, Lester Young, Teddy Edwards, Billie Holliday, Dexter Gordon, Nat Cole, etc. Sounds good too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispykoilz Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Georg, congratulations on the purchase of your new gramophone. I know you'll be pleased with the way it sounds. I have 3 different crank ones but not one with an external horn yet. Those old 78's are terrific sounding but you probably want to listen to them with something that won't cause as much wear as the old gear will. Garrard also had some good tables that would work for you. I would think anything within the last 20 years that has 78 speed and is in good shape will work. Looks like following the suggestions already made will put you in really good shape though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 "It's stuffed full of Charlie Parker, Howard McGhee, Art Pepper, Thelonious Monk, Lester Young, Teddy Edwards, Billie Holliday, Dexter Gordon, Nat Cole, etc. Sounds good too" Allen, I wondered what happened to all those guys, now I see that your jukebox ate them! When I think of those beautiful jukeboxes that we trashed to get the amps when we were kids I could almost thrash myself. Those and '32 Fords must have cut up a dozen of them. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Alan, That has to be one of the Coolest vintage pieces I have ever seen of any sort when it comes to audio. I wonder what something that that would set a guy back? Man would it be ultra cool to have one even if you never listened to it. What are the approx. Dimension of that? What does the coin slot say for the price of a tune I taking for granted they were a commercial product? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I bought mine for $400 in pretty much beat condition (but complete!) about 20 years ago and my wife and I put about 300 hours into the restoration--it looks as good as the one in the picture. It's bigger than a Klipschorn and weighs in at about 250 lbs. This is the rarest of all pre-war models--I'll bet there are less than 25 left. Value? I dunno--maybe three grand? I like these moderne wooden boxes a LOT--I don't think I could stand living with a post-war box--way too much color and chrome and BUBBLES! This one has 16 records in it and a quarter plays a 6-song set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispykoilz Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Allan, I'm guessing you could name your price and someone somewhere would ****** it from you as quick as you could say... Really nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 That is so cool. I envision your home as having some real cool stuff in it ! You are a man of great taste. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 ---------------- On 12/21/2003 6:31:02 PM Georg Friedrich Handel wrote: Dave, Ok so your supposed to replace the needles after every playback because the steel needle gets worn out by the Shellac and ruins the record? ---------------- The steel needle will get a flat spot on it where it contacts the record. This has sharp edges that will cut into the shellac and cause groove damage. A careful person can turn the needle around and play it on the side opposite of the flat spot and get another play, but if you didn't line it up just right it would cut the record anyway. Back in the good old days it was common to play several records with one needle and rotate the needle to minimize wear. However, all those records slowly developed very noisy surfaces which usually wasn't noticed until it was way to late. When played on modern equipment you can really hear the damage. Preamps with scratch filters were developed to handle this on electronic gear, and it does help. After all, those records had almost no information above 5 kHz, so might as well build a high cut filter into the preamp to get rid of what noise developed there. By replacing the steel needle with a cactus needle, wear will be cut back a lot. However, volume is reduced and the sound gets much softer, mellower. You may like this effect, or you may not. BTW, there is a sapphire replacement needle that works like a steel needle but lasts a lot longer. The problem with it is you need a microscope to examine it regularly to determine when it first starts to develop the flat spot so you will know when to replace it. There is a tendency to forget that they wear out, too, andf it doesn't take a lot of plays to do it. My memory is hazy on this, but I think about 30-50 plays. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Yeah, its a nice looking piece Its actually a replica gramaphone made like the exact original, it even has nipper on the front "His master's voice". Here is a pic of the exact one i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Here's what you need George. Play your valuable 78s and Lps with zero wear. http://www.smartdev.com/LT/laserturntable.html Just kidding, at 10-13,000 dollars they are a little pricey. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Damn, those laser LP players are so awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 If vinyl keeps gaining in popularity I'm sure that the price will continue to come down to reasonable levels. Until then we have to take good care of our records. Of course today there are turntable/tonearm/cartridge combo's that cost that much and more. Bill Gates can afford them. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 ---------------- On 12/21/2003 11:58:36 PM 3dzapper wrote: If vinyl keeps gaining in popularity I'm sure that the price will continue to come down to reasonable levels. Until then we have to take good care of our records. Of course today there are turntable/tonearm/cartridge combo's that cost that much and more. Bill Gates can afford them. Rick ---------------- Why would you want to spend more on a TT cartridge and tonearm when you can eliminate all that and go laser?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Because the $13,000 laser turntable has a VERY hard time keeping up with a nice "conventional" rig that costs about one-tenth of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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