guitz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I never understood any arguements for any cable being better than any other, assuming there all stranded. Especially the guage thing....I mean, why would thicker speaker wire be better?? More surface area for electrons to flow you say?....but what about what the teeny tiny diameter of all electronic components on the crossover? All the spacious surface area, etc wouldn't mean squat when those electrons hit the incoming leg of a cap or resistor or whatever that's the equivalent of 18 gauge or thinner wire, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ---------------- On 1/27/2004 4:38:56 PM guitz wrote: I never understood any arguements for any cable being better than any other, assuming there all stranded. Especially the guage thing....I mean, why would thicker speaker wire be better?? More surface area for electrons to flow you say?....but what about what the teeny tiny diameter of all electronic components on the crossover? All the spacious surface area, etc wouldn't mean squat when those electrons hit the incoming leg of a cap or resistor or whatever that's the equivalent of 18 gauge or thinner wire, IMO. ---------------- Well, despite the fact that my argument for surface area already got shot full of holes to the point where I'm willing to concede it as incorrect, I can answer your objection. 1) The piddly short runs inside the crossover have next to zero effect on the overall sound. Why? Because resistance at that point is totally controlled via your resistor network, and the length of the wire between those resistors and to the drivers is too short to be of any consequence. As long as it isn't corroded or near open-circuit stage, that wire has no effect on the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I didn't really mean the internal wiring...just thought that whatever benefit some people claim about having more surface area for your external speaker wire couldn't be true, because obviously the legs of all your components on your crossover are much smaller gauge, so I don't see how having fatter external wire would be a benefit when those electrons still have to squeeze thru the smaller electronic components on the crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 guitz - Keep in mind that resistance is proportional to length. If those little legs connecting the components to the crossover board were 10 feet long instead of a quarter inch, it wouldn't work. Speaker wire, being somewhat longer than a quarter inch, needs to be larger gauge. If you want to try a cheap but interesting experiment, go to Radio Shack or other electronics store and buy a roll of 24 or 28 gauge wire and use it to connect your speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I don't know about that....I was talking to a Klipsch tech on the phone a couple weeks ago, and he told me that you'd have to have , like, a 1000 feet of cable or so before resistance would even play a factor, based on testing they did in their lab. (We were talking specifically about the high gauge internal wiring of the speakers that I have, and I mentioned I thought about upgrading them , that's when he went into all this explanation about speaker wire myths...He did say that they use Monster internally on some models , but more for the customer satisfaction than any tangable results.) He mentioned a blind test they did with some people who could not identify generic wire from some of the hyped brands, which I thought was interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I take back anything i said about the orginal monster cable. It is a true performer. I just needed to burn my receiver in more. I am talking hundreds of hours. That baby is smoother than ever now and i blamed the cable for it and their is nothing wrong with them. My mistake their i just couldn't believe my receiver hasn't been fully broken in yet. Escpecially from someone that preaches about about burn in. It just took alot longer than i expected with the onkyo. I am waiting on a denon 1801 older model i bought off of ebay. See how i like the denon seeing how alot people around here like them they got to have something to offer. The onkyo really is starting to open up i can hear peoople breathing in between words sometimes. The wire harshness is gone it had nothing to do with the wire. So i judged to quickly, and i can say their defenitely more dynamic than most cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ---------------- On 1/27/2004 11:39:04 PM guitz wrote: He mentioned a blind test they did with some people who could not identify generic wire from some of the hyped brands, which I thought was interesting. ---------------- I wonder if that was the blind test a bunch of us did just this past summer up there at Klipsch HQ in Indianapolis. I could not really tell a difference between the generic stuff and the hyped-up expensive stuff. They did show a graph where there was some measurable signal distortion in the cheap stuff that was not present in the more expensive stuff (maybe a decibel and half or so, usually in the lower or upper ranges of the audiable frequency spectrum). Now, if John Q. Listener could hear the difference, probably not, as evidenced by the blind test. That being said, I did not mind paying a few extra $'s for the better stuff - if not for at least the peace of mind if there is anything weak in my setup, it will not be the cabling. Yes, I am using Monster throughout most of the setup, with some Rat Shack AVFusion stuff thrown in for good measure. It works plenty good enough and is readily available locally. With a little "wheelin'-n-dealin'", I can usually get a few dollars knocked off the full price at the local dealer. Also, the Monster XP speaker wire I have going to the surrounds has yet to turn green, after nearly two years of being up and in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz1604 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I don't understand this at all, you guys spend loads of money on high quality components and speakers, but hook it up with $5 lamp cord. I know you will say blind test this, he said this! Bottom line: Lamp cord looks weak and tacky. Even if it does sound the same! You go right ahead and call me and idiot for buying high priced speaker wire or for buying Monster wire too. At least my wire has some character and visual appearance. I know, I know, it's cheaper to buy lamp cord. Is this some type of deal yall make with the WAF. "Let me spend two grand on this pre amp and will save $20.00 and use lamp cord." I know yall have the money, so whats the deal here! Stop being frugal with your speaker wire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ---------------- On 1/29/2004 1:13:43 PM caz1604 wrote: I don't understand this at all, you guys spend loads of money on high quality components and speakers, but hook it up with $5 lamp cord. I know you will say blind test this, he said this! Bottom line: Lamp cord looks weak and tacky. Even if it does sound the same! You go right ahead and call me and idiot for buying high priced speaker wire or for buying Monster wire too. At least my wire has some character and visual appearance. I know, I know, it's cheaper to buy lamp cord. Is this some type of deal yall make with the WAF. "Let me spend two grand on this pre amp and will save $20.00 and use lamp cord." I know yall have the money, so whats the deal here! Stop being frugal with your speaker wire... ---------------- caz, Your argument for buying expensive wire, buy it because it looks cool, does make more sense than most arguments for it. The bottom line to most people though is performance. WAF is a MAJOR factor in my HT. (In all honesty since my HT is my living room I'm fairly picky as well.) However, we would both rather put our money into speakers etc. instead of cables/wires which can cost as much as the difference between the speakers we want and the ones we REALLY want. In my system there is less than 8' of exposed wire so I'm not too worried about the looks of my wire. $0.02, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz1604 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ---------------- On 1/29/2004 1:35:18 PM yromj wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2004 1:13:43 PM caz1604 wrote: I don't understand this at all, you guys spend loads of money on high quality components and speakers, but hook it up with $5 lamp cord. I know you will say blind test this, he said this! Bottom line: Lamp cord looks weak and tacky. Even if it does sound the same! You go right ahead and call me and idiot for buying high priced speaker wire or for buying Monster wire too. At least my wire has some character and visual appearance. I know, I know, it's cheaper to buy lamp cord. Is this some type of deal yall make with the WAF. "Let me spend two grand on this pre amp and will save $20.00 and use lamp cord." I know yall have the money, so what’s the deal here! Stop being frugal with your speaker wire... ---------------- caz, Your argument for buying expensive wire, buy it because it looks cool, does make more sense than most arguments for it. The bottom line to most people though is performance. WAF is a MAJOR factor in my HT. (In all honesty since my HT is my living room I'm fairly picky as well.) However, we would both rather put our money into speakers etc. instead of cables/wires which can cost as much as the difference between the speakers we want and the ones we REALLY want. In my system there is less than 8' of exposed wire so I'm not too worried about the looks of my wire. $0.02, John ---------------- I am not saying that only buy wire because it looks cool. In my opinion, my Monster Wire does perform better than lamp cord, but I did not say that because I would get about 10 responses from people who believe otherwise. I am simply trying to point out that lamp cord looks like terd and that I don't understand why people splurge on somethings and not others. Yes, interconnects can add up really quick in cost, but I don't think the minimal cost that is saved in buying lamp cord is worth it. If everything was made to perform equally, then we all would be driving Pintos instead of splurging for the Benz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ---------------- On 1/29/2004 2:32:40 PM caz1604 wrote: I am not saying that only buy wire because it looks cool. In my opinion, my Monster Wire does perform better than lamp cord, but I did not say that because I would get about 10 responses from people who believe otherwise. I am simply trying to point out that lamp cord looks like terd and that I don't understand why people splurge on somethings and not others. Yes, interconnects can add up really quick in cost, but I don't think the minimal cost that is saved in buying lamp cord is worth it. If everything was made to perform equally, then we all would be driving Pintos instead of splurging for the Benz. ---------------- I agree with the lamp cord to Monster comparison, for interconnects (we'll agree to leave speaker wire out of this). As far as why people splurge on some things and not others, I feel it comes down to budget and prioritizing money. I use AR interconnects and speaker wire. Do I think they're the best out there? NOPE. But I feel they give me very good bang for the buck. If I was comfortable making my own interconnects I would do that. That way I could use the parts I wanted and save some money. However, the biggest factor with respect to interconnects, IMHO, is the connections to the connectors. (How good is the connection? How durable is the connection? That type of thing.) I can't guarantee myself I can make a quality, durable connection, so I buy prefab interconnects. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Inexpensive good quality large 10 awg speaker wire: http://store.yahoo.com/mobile-emotions/10gaugspeakw.html 34.5 cents per foot...max 100 ft rolls.....good stuff....and great price.... Yall buy what ya want....heheheI am happy with this stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Bigger is better. Quality of the cable is a big issue. I don't understand why people buy ****ty cable and then ***** about a product being made in china. When quality is the reason why people ***** about other countries. I mean come on now if that wasn't the issue we would all be rascist to say something sucked from another country. I know it means everything to support our economics in our country. But hay share the wealth some of those other countries need a little help. We are so lucky to be here on our computers argueing about speaker wire. That is the wealth of our country and the help of our brave men and women that serve our country ( God bless them all i hope they all make it back alive). Quality does matter otherwise why even by klipsch if it didn't. Why hook up a cheep peice of crap to a good amp and speaker. Your telling me the people that use crappy cables use crappy interconnects. Yeah! right! And i know alot of people on the forum are from other countries and God bless them. To all the people that use the cheep speaker wire you might as well just use the out of box interconnects. What is the difference your losing everything you put into. I am not saying buy the brand name stuff just do not get the cheesy stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz1604 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Very well put Wheelman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary W. Graley Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Got the SoundKing wire in, 12ga, nice stuff! Got a 100' roll, on special right now for about .30 a foot, but shipping is about $9. I replaced the 16ga surround wiring, much nicer, fuller sound. And replaced the one set that I used for my bi-wiring, so now my mains have two runs of 12ga going to each speaker, also a little better, not a LEAP better, but a little. Amazingly, when all was done and I trimmed the center channel run to match the length of the existing run, I ended up with a 4" piece of wire left from the 100' roll! WOW I couldn't have figured that much closer! G2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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