Griffinator Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ---------------- On 2/5/2004 3:38:06 PM JBP wrote: jdilks, So two of the channels on the Elite will power four speakers? Isn't that going to degrade the actual watts that get to each of the four side speakers, 50 watts instead of 100 WPC, which will result in unbalanced sound distribution, or do the number of watts going to each channel not have much effect on the sound of a speaker? Have you considered placing the side speakers next to each other, one angled towards the front and the other towards the back, sort of replicating the shape of the RS-7 or similar surround speaker? Please let me know how it sounds once you get it all hooked-up and running. Thanks. ---------------- Actually it's not uncommon with the larger channel count systems to see lower wattage output to the "extra" speakers. The Yamaha RX-Z1 receiver outputs to L, C, R, Front Effects L/R, Rear L/R, and surround back (the correct term for "rear center") for a total of 8.1 channels. The 6 primary channels are all 150WPC, where the front effects channels are only 80. Why? Because they're receiving information produced by the receiver, not discrete information from the source. I'm not a big fan of wide-dispersion speakers for any application. Directional speakers, especially when dealing with discrete channel information such as that contained in a Dolby EX 6.1 disc. Hell, if you want wide-dispersion, you may as well go and buy Bose 301's for the surround speakers . I suspect the popularity in wide-dispersion systems stems from the feeling of continuous soundfield they create - smearing the image across the entire rear to enhance the sense of "immersion". To me, there's no substitute for directionals in proper placements - I want to hear every sound crystal clear and accurately placed the way it was mixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Griffinator, I'm not sure I understand your explanation. I'm just trying to look at jdilks's specific set-up and trying to understand if it would work. If you use an Elite reciever rated at 100 wpc x 7, take two of the channels, split them, powering 4 speakers, they will only get 50 watts per speaker. Won't that effect the sound the 4 speakers produce, only getting 50 wpc, when compared to the 3 front and 2 rear speakers all getting 100 wpc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Sorry, I under rated jdilks's Elite reciever, it's 150 wpc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdilks Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Based on my past experience, with my last system, I expect I will prefer to have all of the speakers, including the 4 side surrounds and the 2 back surrounds, angled slightly in toward the center of the room (approximately aimed at the center of the opposite wall). What I don't know yet, is whether I will also prefer to have all of the surrounds tilted slightly down (approximately aimed at the center of the opposite wall, maybe). I hope that made sense. I'm temporarily using a VSX-49TXi, waiting for delivery of my VSX-59TXi (and my DV59-AVi). I've heard that the 59TXi has a new feature called "bi-surrounds", that I hope will be similar to what the Denon receivers have (connection and configuration for a second pair of side surrounds). If that's true, then I won't need the Monster multi-speaker selector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdilks Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 As far as a pair of side surounds sharing the same channel, I think that each speaker only needs half of the power, for the combined pair of speakers to produce the same SPL as a single speaker - the total power would remain the same, and the resulting total SPL would remain the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ---------------- On 2/5/2004 6:31:30 PM JBP wrote: If you use an Elite reciever rated at 100 wpc x 7, take two of the channels, split them, powering 4 speakers, they will only get 50 watts per speaker. Won't that effect the sound the 4 speakers produce, only getting 50 wpc, when compared to the 3 front and 2 rear speakers all getting 100 wpc? ---------------- Not at all. By splitting the speaker output in series (both speaker outs wired straight to the + and - terminals individually) he's cutting the ohm load in half. This, in turn, allows the amp to work more efficiently, and produce more power. I'll wager his real power loss is less than 40 watts per speaker on that 150W output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ---------------- On 2/5/2004 7:23:41 PM jdilks wrote: As far as a pair of side surounds sharing the same channel, I think that each speaker only needs half of the power, for the combined pair of speakers to produce the same SPL as a single speaker - the total power would remain the same, and the resulting total SPL would remain the same. ---------------- Theoretically that's right - if two speakers are outputting the same program material at the same volume, the total dB level goes up by 3. Since it requires 2x the power to increase the volume level by 3dB anyhow, if one speaker can produce 98dB with 2 watts of power, then two of that same speaker will still produce 98dB with 1 watt apiece. Couple this with what I mentioned above about power output and ohm load, and theoretically you could extract ever so slightly more total dB out of two speakers running 4 ohm load on an amplifier channel than you could with one speaker running an 8 ohm load on the same amp channel. By all means, if I'm out of line with my theory here, someone correct me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdilks Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 The speaker selector has resistors in series with the speakers to protect the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ---------------- On 2/5/2004 7:46:12 PM jdilks wrote: The speaker selector has resistors in series with the speakers to protect the amp. ---------------- I wouldn't use it, were I you. Your amp isn't going to explode if you run it at 4 Ohms. The only time an amp protection system is really necessary is when you're running 4-6 pairs (or more) of speakers off the same pair of outputs. That's when you get into dangerous, unstable load territory. Very few amplifiers on the market are stable below 2 ohms. Carver is one of the notable exceptions - Bob was a psychopath about producing megawatt blocks that could pump huge power at 1 Ohm - I recall the earlier incarnations of the T1000 (or was it T5000?) that could crank out 7500 watts bridged mono into 1 Ohm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdilks Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 BTW, in my last system, I had 4 RF-3II's (2 front mains and 2 back surrounds), 4 RS-3II's (2 left and 2 right side surrounds), 1 RC-3II (front center) and 2 RSW-12's. It worked very well, but I expect my RB-75 system to sound much better (for both movies and especially music). I think that, by using pairs of monopole side surrounds, the net effect will be better for movies than using single monopole side surrounds, and better for music than using bipole or dipole side surrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I dont know what you guys think, but i think the RS-anything's are just ugly, the RB's look a lot better, i would use those for rear's just for that reason. For the 6's rear speaker, i would get a one or two RCW's. That would be plush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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