Sid Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Well finally received my 1804 and got it all set up last night.Very easy to set up I might add.The system sounds great but it seems like it could be louder.I can turn the 1804 all the way up and watch a dvd.With other cheaper and way less quality systems I could never turn any of them up all the way.Have I got something set up wrong or is the sound so clean its possible to listen to levels higher then I used to.Also does any know the code for a motorola cable box so I can program it into the Denon remote? By the way the first dvd I watched was Open Range.The gunfight was just incredible.Gotta love those Klipschs. Thanks in advance....Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
device manager Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Look in your manual for the individual speaker level adjustments; you can raise/lower them. Ideally you should use a SPL meter to calibrate your system. The receiver internal test tones should be around 75-80dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Does it make any difference where the master volume is set when I go through the test tone sequence? Also the first time I calibrated (by ear)the tones were set from 0 to +3 db according to the OSD.Overall volume was loud but just didn't sound loud enough.Then I retested the tones and kicked them up to 15db-18db. This didn't seem to affect overall volume.How does setting test tones relate to overall volume. Am I asking to much of the 1804?Thanks again for the help...Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 How big is your room? Actually the speakers shouldn't be pushing by the reciever that hard. I've my reciever as -20 and my ears are already in hell, I kept under -30db to -50db for my elite most of the time tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 ---------------- On 2/8/2004 9:36:24 AM Sid wrote: Overall volume was loud but just didn't sound loud enough.Then I retested the tones and kicked them up to 15db-18db. This didn't seem to affect overall volume.How does setting test tones relate to overall volume. Am I asking to much of the 1804?Thanks again for the help...Sid ---------------- Sounds like you either may have something hooked up wrong or you got a bad reciever. Check your speaker connections to make sure you don't have one hooked up backwards. In other words. make sure you are indeed hooking up the "+" to the "+" and the "-" to the "-". If you have one hooked up backwards, than the speaker will be out of phase and as a result, can cause some cancellation of the sound. The end result could be lower percieved volume. Even with the Denon AVR-1804, you should be hard-pressed to get the volume up past "0" before is starts to get unbearably loud. Once you are sure of your connections, then if you have access to an SPL meter (you can get one from Rat Shack for about $40), you should try to calibrate your system. At the very lest, you can use the test-tone generator of the reciever, better yet is to get one of those "Setup DVDs" (Which I still need to do). With the pink-noise generator engaged on your reciever, sit in the center of the room with your SPL meter, set to "C" weighting. Cycle through each speaker and adjust the individual levels until you get about 75db on your meter. The subwoofer is trickier since the Radio Shack meter does not seem to be as accurate at the lower frequencies. I just played that one by ear until I got a level I was happy with. There is a chart floating around that allows you to correct for the frequency range of the sub, but I cannot remember where or who had that. Also, make sure your speaker distances are set correctly as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Shomaker Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 We have a Denon AVR-3803 and it doesn't really put out enough power to watch a movie until about -20 but when my stepdad watches a movie at -5 I'm suprised I can still hear anything at the end of the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 With test tone set main volume to 00 and then set volume to each speaker. Make sure you are not adjusting the main volume. Make sure you have you porlaity right on each speaker. They have to be the same for all. Make sure you are in the right mode for movies, just DD or DTS not any Jazz club or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
om13934 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Amazing! I just logged on to the forum to post a question about the exact same thing! My 1804 seems way underpowered from when i listened to it in the stores. Just received it, and I have to turn the volume way up during movies.(-20 just to get decent dialogue) I'm possitive all the polarity is correct, I'm just very surprised to find that 90watts/ch. is too little for the incredibly efficient Klipsch speakers. Maybe the RF15's I'm running aren't as efficient as the larger klipsch speakers, even though their drivers are smaller.? Any more help would be great -just to add, my friend bought an Onkyo running 85 watts/ch. to some incredibly inefficient MTX audio speakers with 6" midranges and 12" woofers, and he can crank his much more than I can. I just feel a little cheated and confused? My denon is supposed to be more powerful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Ok, here's an update.Checked speaker polarity.Re tested tones with master volume at 00.Same result.Then I decided to see what the vcr sounded like.Same thing.I then put it on FM and man what a difference!!I couldn't turn it up all the way. Now this is why I bought klipsch!So I then tried the music channels on cable tv.Same result as FM.Just incredible sound.Then I put a music cd in the dvd player and it was the same as the FM,LOUD! What could be wrong here? I do get great sound from dvd and vcr movies, just not loud.Hope this helps you too om13934.I'm sure there has to be a solution here. Thanks guys....Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whadyasay Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 The ouput of radio and TV sound is usually quite a bit louder than that of DVD's.....too loud, really. One of the reasons is that broadcast audio is usually quite compressed as to be compatable with the vast number of people listening through tiny car or television speakers. CD's are generally louder than DVD's in normal level, too. At first, the normal level of DVD's might seem low, but this allows for much more dynamic range (just put on the LOTR DVD's and you'll see just how loud things can get). I've had a Denon 1802, and now a 2803, and normal DVD volume level is usually around -17, whereas on some TV channels, it's down to -30. If you have cable, especially digital cable, you can also see the huge range of volume levels from channel to channel....I am constantly riding my volume control on the remote as I'm surfing channels. For an example of this, turn on HBO, then switch to the Sci-Fi Channel or the Discovery Channel. Don't worry, this is normal. DVD's also vary quite drastically in their volume levels. It's just one of those things you have to deal with, but when you listen to a DVD with a truly dynamic sound mix (Saving Private Ryan, Star Wars, Toy Story, etc.). you'll appreciate it. If you still feel you need more volume, maybe it's time to switch to a more powerful amp...but you have to make sure your speakers can handle the continuous power. Klipschs are very efficient, so they don't need much...the 1804 should be plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 -20 is not turned up very loud. Denon uses a progressive scale on there volume. Go head and turn them up to 00 if you want. It sounds like you may have something wrong with the dvd player or its cable. Are you using fiber optic cable? Do you have everything set on your dvd player right? What movie are you using and what sound field? What dvd player do you have? All these will help use get to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 that denon will go to +30 i think. i've had RF7's to +18 on an 1803 and the amp could take no more, audible distortion was inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Shomaker Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 The AVR-3803 only goes to +18 I just checked on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whadyasay Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I would think that by +18 on the 3803, you'd be flirting with permanent hearing damage, especially using Klipsch speakers. There really are no standards for volume settings when it comes to released broadcast or home movie material. Every Denon receiver I've used is usually in the -18 to -13 range when listening to most DVD's at comfortably loud levels. There are a few DVD's (notably older releases) that are so quiet in their mixes that I have to turn up to -11 or so....the recently released "Scarface" w/ Pacino is one in particular, even with the DTS mix. "Matrix Reloaded" is also a bit soft. Both of the "LOTR"'s as well as T3 can get downright humongous at times. Meanwhile, many music DVD's with a DTS mix are quite loud. Clapton's live "One More Car...." and "Hyde Park" DVD's are quite powerful in their DVD mixes, and I usually have the volume at around -22 to -20 on those. You could also look in the setup menu of your DVD player and see if there's a setting for audio attenuation ('Audio ATT') that might be switched on. I had this function on an older Sony DVD player I had, and there was a considerable difference in output level. I would also try both the optical and coaxial digital ouputs to see if there's a difference or something wrong, but if your CD's are playing through the same output and they sound fine, then it doesn't seem that this is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 ---------------- On 2/8/2004 3:34:01 PM om13934 wrote: Amazing! I just logged on to the forum to post a question about the exact same thing! My 1804 seems way underpowered from when i listened to it in the stores. Just received it, and I have to turn the volume way up during movies.(-20 just to get decent dialogue) I'm possitive all the polarity is correct, I'm just very surprised to find that 90watts/ch. is too little for the incredibly efficient Klipsch speakers. ---------------- After reading your's and Sid's posting, like others have already said ('Wadyasay' pretty much explained it quite nicely in his posting), this is actually normal. I have a Denon AVR-3802 being used as a pre/pro, backed up with a 200 watts/channel B&K amplifier, yet I still find myself turning it up anywere between -20 to -15 on the dial for watching movies, or -25 for listening to CD's or watching TV. Beyond that, it was getting to loud to be comfortable in my particular room. The real advantage of having the bigger, more powerful amp was the resulting sound had much more clarity and detail. The bass was more powerful and cleaner, also. By comparison, I've listened to some Martin-Logans with the same amp that I have, but I found I had to turn up the pre/pro to something like -18 on CD's and -10 on movies to get the same percieved "loudness" I did with the Klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 ---------------- On 2/9/2004 5:03:58 PM whadyasay wrote: I would think that by +18 on the 3803, you'd be flirting with permanent hearing damage, especially using Klipsch speakers. ---------------- Oh man, I turned it up +10 once, and I had to leave the house! The damn thing was drowning out the dude's "thumpa" car stereo across the street, while standing right next to his car! That was before I got the B&K amp! I did it because I got pissed at the dude over there across the street blasting his crap while I was trying to watch a movie on a nice warm spring evening (I had the windows opened). So I decided to "Fight fire with fire!", and cranked up some serious "metal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 First of all I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out with this problem.I know we all have busy lives and I really appreciate your time.I log on everyday here, so most of the questions I had were answered even before I got my system set up.All I left to do is some final tweeks and figure out how to play a DTS movie.The player is a Panasonic and I have bitstream selected.The other option was PCM, which didn't work. When I select DTS on the receiver it goes from DD to DTS NEO6.I also select it in the movie options.One more question if you can stand it, is when I use the THX audio test on a DVD I don't get any noise from my sub.It works fine in DD though.All in all I'm amazed at the sound of the Klipsch and the Denon and this is just the Synergy system!I listened to the Diana Krall DVD and now I'm in love..LOL.. Anyways,thanks again for all the help....Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 For DTS go into the dvd player menu and make sure you have dts on. Mine has two options D-pcm and DTS. Make sure yours is in DTS. This is how mine works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whadyasay Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Okay, here goes....on your Denon receiver, when in DVD, you can set the 'input' to 'AUTO', which should automatically set it to DD, DTS, DPLII depending on what you choose when playing a DVD. The DVD player's digital output should be set to 'bitstream' for both DD and DTS. Now when you put in a DVD and want to hear the DTS track, make sure you select the DTS track in the DVD's audio/language menu. This should work fine, and the Denon should say 'DTS' when the DVD is playing. Otherwise, you can manually switch through the Denon's inputs (pressing the input 'mode' button on remote or receiver) until it reads DTS. It shouldn't be saying 'Neo 6', but if it does, try pressing the 'DD/DTS SURROUND' botton on your remote a few times until it reads just 'DTS' or 'DTS 5.1'. You are using a digital coaxial or optical line from the DVD player to the receiver, right? Also, as easylistener said, you may have to check to see if the DVD player's DTS is switched on, if it has this function. The test tones on a THX DVD (THX Optimizer/Optimode) isn't as accurate as a calibration DVD like Avia or Digital Video Essentials. The test noise that comes out of the subwoofer is not a static-like pink noise like the rest of the speakers, but pretty much a very quiet rumble. Check using your receiver's 'test tone', and if there's still nothing coming out of your sub, then check the setup menu to see if you have the subwoofer selected to 'yes'. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 What I have is an s-video and audio left and right cables going from the DVD to the receiver.Everything else is set just like you described.This might be why it also says analog on the front display.Should I go optical? Does optical cover audio and video?Thank you...Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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